Podcast Episode 1: The Story So Far

Please note that this transcript is auto-generated and therefore will contain some errors and natural pauses in conversation.

00:00:07:08 – 00:00:27:17

Dawn

Welcome to Creative Life Story Work podcast, where we explore how a creative approach to life story work can help children and young people who’ve been in care make sense of their past and build a brighter future. A new model for life story work is being rolled out in the northeast of England, and this podcast will share the

 

00:00:27:17 – 00:00:53:19

Dawn

latest learning and investigate how it could help improve the lives of care, experienced children and young people across the country. So this afternoon, I am delighted to welcome into the podcast studio. My guests Professor Richard Rose, internationally respected authority on Life Story Work and the founder of Therapeutic Life Story Work International.

 

00:00:53:19 – 00:00:54:12

Dawn

Hello, Richard.

 

00:00:54:13 – 00:00:55:06

Richard

Hello, everybody.

 

00:00:55:13 – 00:01:09:17

Dawn

Tony Joyce, service manager and head of integrated services for looked after children in South Tyneside Council, and Tony was involved in the Creative Life Story Work Pilot between 2018 and 2020. Good afternoon, Tony.

 

00:01:10:04 – 00:01:10:22

Tony

Hi, everyone.

 

00:01:11:02 – 00:01:19:17

Dawn

We have Jenny Young, director of Blue Cup in the organization, who is leading this collaboration. Hi, Jenny.

 

00:01:19:19 – 00:01:20:08

Jenny

Hi.

 

00:01:20:19 – 00:01:42:23

Dawn

We have two associate artists who are facilitating the creative activities for care, experienced children and young people. Paddy O’Connor from Mamy Theater Hi Paddy. Hi. And Michelle Wood from See Turn Print. Hello, Michelle. Hi, you’re all very, very welcome.

 

00:01:43:15 – 00:02:11:09

Dawn

And I can certainly say that we have the experts in the room to tell the story of creative life story work to date, how we’ve got there, what’s happened, and maybe what we’re thinking about doing next. So I was going to set the scene by asking Tony, Tony Joyce just to paint a bit of the picture.

 

00:02:11:14 – 00:02:30:07

Dawn

Back in 2018, what was it? What what were the events that were happening in 2018? What were some of the conversations that happened between South Tyneside Council and Blue Cabin to kick off the conversations about all about me?

 

00:02:31:21 – 00:02:59:00

Tony

OK, Don. So I think for me, I was becoming increasingly aware of care experienced adults coming back to the service and returning to request access to their records. And the reasons why they were coming budget for their records was to help understand in terms of why some of the key decisions were made for them and help help

 

00:02:59:09 – 00:03:31:17

Tony

them understand why things were. And for some. They couldn’t, you know, they couldn’t really recollect in terms of how many. Different placements weren’t why decisions were made, and that was that was becoming more and more prevalent. For young people that access their records, they didn’t necessarily gain the understanding and the information that they needed from that.

 

00:03:32:01 – 00:03:51:02

Tony

And part of that reason being is the records weren’t. And I’m going to say it’s still aren’t written in a way which which makes it easy for that to happen. So therefore, for quite a number of young people, they couldn’t understand in terms of their history through their records.

 

00:03:51:02 – 00:04:06:08

Tony

And if, for example, there was no nobody still working for the council who was around at that time wasn’t able to kind of help explain some gotten and really help walk through and talk through their records with them.

 

00:04:07:03 – 00:04:27:12

Tony

So we had an opportunity through through DFA funding. We received funding for to improve outcomes for care leavers in education, training, employment. And and one of the questions I got asked on more than one occasion was So so what’s life story work to do with improved outcomes for education, training and care leavers?

 

00:04:27:21 – 00:04:49:11

Tony

And I kind of explained what that was and why that was. And it was at that point that I approached and approached Dawn and Jonny Young with with the brief and that brief Brisbane is, you know, we want to do some work.

 

00:04:49:11 – 00:05:09:18

Tony

There’s a need in South Tyneside to do further work arounds like story work for our young people and young adults. How can we do that in a way that is this is creative. And the rest, really, for me, was all that to blue carbon.

 

00:05:10:09 – 00:05:31:04

Dawn

And so I will hand over to Jenny. And so Jenny, if you cast your mind back to 2018, can you remember some of those initial conversations that we had with Tony about the brief, how we might approach that and maybe why blue carbon was the organization to do that?

 

00:05:32:06 – 00:05:45:10

Jenny

So 2018 feels like such a long time ago now, and so much has happened, and I do remember getting that email from Tony. I think it said something along the lines of. Have you set up Blue Cup in?

 

00:05:46:10 – 00:06:03:10

Jenny

Would you be interested in a conversation? We’ve got some ideas around an area of work, and I think Blue Cabin might be able to help. And what was really interesting and completely coincidental is at the time Blue Cabin, as a company was having wanderings and curiosities around whether.

 

00:06:04:23 – 00:06:21:14

Jenny

We had a role to play in supporting life story, work for care, experienced children and young people. So the focus of our company is care, experienced children and young people in the adults in their lives and us. It’s a statutory part of what they should be offered.

 

00:06:21:21 – 00:06:37:11

Jenny

We’ve always wondered what does that mean for us as a company? Do we have a role to play? If so, what would the role be? And we had a hunch that because of all, all of our work is artist led and also because we support system change within local authorities that it could be a really interesting piece

 

00:06:37:11 – 00:06:56:13

Jenny

of action research. I suppose our exploration to to think as a company about whether we could support this work and Tawny completely coincidentally came to us. And through that conversation with Tony, it really highlighted the fact that there was a need in South Tyneside that Tony and the team had identified around life story work, and that was

 

00:06:56:13 – 00:07:17:01

Jenny

as a company were interested in exploring that as well, and that the timeframe of the DfI funded defunding did provide us with some time to think about what that kind of work could look, sound and feel like. But at the time, we certainly weren’t an expert on life story work by any means, and we needed to make

 

00:07:17:02 – 00:07:35:04

Jenny

sure that anything that we did and was underpinned by somebody who had the knowledge and experience of life, story, work and work with children and young people around that. And so I can remember actually Googling life story work trainer because I thought we we just need to have a conversation with somebody because we would need to work

 

00:07:35:04 – 00:07:50:02

Jenny

alongside them in the development of this work. And hilariously, I remember Richard’s photo or popping up and giving him a ring. Oh yeah, I think I give him a ring and I left a voicemail saying, Hi, my name’s Gerry, I’m from Blue Cavan and we’re interested in this work.

 

00:07:50:02 – 00:08:07:07

Jenny

It would be great to have a conversation and really quickly he either emailed back or gave me a ring and we set up a call and I think he was in Australia when we had this virtual call because he delivers training all over the world on therapeutic life story work and what was key to meeting Richard and

 

00:08:07:07 – 00:08:31:19

Jenny

understanding more about his therapeutic life story work model was that Richard was really, really open to exploring the possibilities of how his therapeutic life story work model could develop, how we could innovate and whether it could be developed and whether there could be artists involved in in any element of his therapeutic life story work model.

 

00:08:32:05 – 00:08:44:03

Jenny

And he was just so up for that and so embracing of that and so generous in his offering. And he just was very OK with it all and said, Yeah, I’d love to be involved. And he arranged, come up and visit.

 

00:08:44:07 – 00:08:52:18

Jenny

And so I think me and Tony and Richard met and had a conversation and everything started from there, really?

 

00:08:53:00 – 00:09:04:08

Dawn

Richard, cast your mind back to those initial emails and conversations with Jenny if we’re still seen setting. What do you remember from those first conversations and cups of tea?

 

00:09:04:15 – 00:09:20:17

Richard

Well, I did get a cup of tea actually until we met in the thick entertainment center. But certainly I remember Jenny getting in touch. And for me, it’s unusual, sadly, to go back quickly on a request. But it just seems sometimes that things are meant to be.

 

00:09:21:17 – 00:09:37:20

Richard

And I think I was at the end of a day, I think I went straight back and we just talked a little bit about the project and the thoughts around the project. And one thing that I’ve always wanted to do in the whole of my kind of career is that I slowly work for me to write to

 

00:09:37:20 – 00:09:55:19

Richard

all children. And he was an amazing opportunity for one local authority to actually say all our children deserve this, whereas what I was normally doing would be to do some training, maybe work with children separately. And here was an opportunity which I couldn’t resist.

 

00:09:56:14 – 00:10:08:00

Richard

So I think that in the same way as Tony feeling around, you know that the children that were coming back as adults ask you about their story was something that we could suddenly have an opportunity to do something about.

 

00:10:08:06 – 00:10:14:06

Richard

And that was too much of a thing to miss out on. And I said to Jenny, I think right from the beginning, when would you like me to come up?

 

00:10:14:14 – 00:10:25:22

Dawn

So Richard, would you like to say a bit about the model that you brought to the project? Because it was very distinct, wasn’t it? And that’s what we handed over to the artist. So in a minute, I’ll ask them about that.

 

00:10:25:22 – 00:10:27:12

Dawn

But would you like to say a bit about that?

 

00:10:27:15 – 00:10:49:19

Richard

Sure. So really, since 1997, we’ve been looking at therapeutic life story work as being more than a photograph album, more than a kind of description of what happened to more of a discussion of why. And so I was asked by my boss at the time, a woman called Mary Walsh to design a way in which we could

 

00:10:49:19 – 00:11:03:16

Richard

gather up the fragments of children’s lives, read them all into one space, make sense of those fragments, and then share those stories with the young person and their carers. And that was my task in 97. And then really with lots of help.

 

00:11:03:17 – 00:11:21:04

Richard

Lots of. Some people, including young people themselves, we designed a systemic approach in three parts, the three parts were information gathering, direct work with children and then writing their books at the end. And in this work, we started to develop different communication skills.

 

00:11:21:04 – 00:11:41:12

Richard

We started to think about the theory behind the practice. And then quite quickly, we realized that although this large piece of work, nine months in length was extremely helpful for very, very hurt young people and also for adults, what we really realized was that actually some of those components could be used for young people along the way

 

00:11:41:22 – 00:12:03:12

Richard

. And so we started to introduce all about me books and all about me books was a way in which we could capture that child’s story every six months. And therefore, we could celebrate who that child is. We could think about that child’s day to day that child’s loves, likes, wants, achievements, friends, schools, etc., etc. And it would

 

00:12:03:12 – 00:12:18:00

Richard

all be on a book format, so we would give them a book. They would fill the book and we would then make the book into a kind of a nice kind of a form of the book itself, which was full of lovely pictures, but it was very much book based.

 

00:12:18:18 – 00:12:36:12

Richard

And then for other children, we were thinking that they don’t really need this really long piece of work around that therapeutic love story, taking them from their grandparents to their parents to their conception, from the conception to birth, birth to their current day in the future that actually some children really just wanted to think about.

 

00:12:36:13 – 00:12:48:08

Richard

Why am I where I am today? And so what we thought was, what about if we actually looked at more about me and in a more about me approach? What we concentrate is how come I don’t leave with my family of origin?

 

00:12:48:08 – 00:13:05:00

Richard

How come I live in a different space? Or how come I have these challenging behaviors? And what did they come from and where are they going? And so we do a lot more about me work to complement children’s placements to help shore up, to give credence to to have understanding of.

 

00:13:05:03 – 00:13:18:05

Richard

So an example would be a young person that may be living with a family because their mum or dad have issues with drugs, and those drugs mean that they cannot have the capacity to care for that child. So a carer like a grandmother or an anti caring for them?

 

00:13:18:09 – 00:13:32:16

Richard

And that’s what we would concentrate on. So when Jenny, good touch and said, we’ve got this idea, we’ve got this thought about doing this piece of work. I brought that model of all about me, more about me, therapeutic life story, work as a model.

 

00:13:33:10 – 00:13:43:06

Richard

And I said, What can we do with it? So it wasn’t about being precious. It wasn’t about saying this is the model. It was really about saying, How can this model best fit? What do we need to do?

 

00:13:43:07 – 00:13:59:08

Richard

What would you like to do with it? And I’ve always said throughout my career that, you know, I don’t believe in copyright. I don’t believe in licensing. I believe in working with children and caring for children. And here was an opportunity for you to take what you felt was good and make it better, which you certainly done

 

00:13:59:12 – 00:14:15:23

Dawn

. Michelle, we’ve set the scene of the collaboration with Richard South Tyneside and Blue Carbon, and then the artists were invited to become collaborators as well. What were some of the things that you remember from that from the very beginning?

 

00:14:16:09 – 00:14:33:00

Michelle

It’s an exciting journey, for sure. one of the things was obviously meeting Jenny, and that was in a different context, initially through a social entrepreneurship course, and I was busy setting up cartoon print, which later became a community interest company.

 

00:14:33:07 – 00:14:57:10

Michelle

And the whole premise of that was to take printmaking to people, to enable them to enhance their wellbeing or to grow in confidence. So surreal is a life story. A work opportunity was was a wonderful way of of of kind of bringing C10 prints into the picture because it was something I was interested in already use in

 

00:14:57:10 – 00:15:19:07

Michelle

arts activities, use and creative ideas to enable conversation and to help people essentially. And I remember being invited along to a wonderful meeting, and I think that’s when I met Patti and another artist, Tilly, and I had a fab time, lots of conversation about what was possible.

 

00:15:19:21 – 00:15:39:20

Michelle

Have a think about this as a creative idea. What might you come up with and then having the kind of framework that Richard was, was talking about? There were certain themes introduced, and it was a case of what could you do as a creative idea?

 

00:15:40:08 – 00:16:00:22

Michelle

What could what kind of output could the children are young people create whilst exploring the life stories? And what kind of specific activities might help them do that? Um, and it was such a joy to be able to kind of rise to that challenge and say, Oh, yeah, well, we could do that.

 

00:16:00:22 – 00:16:18:12

Michelle

We could do that. So. So all sorts. Creative ideas were pinging, and then it was it was a case of responding on paper initially and then kind of creating these these objects are these items and bringing life to them.

 

00:16:18:22 – 00:16:37:11

Michelle

And interestingly, as a print maker, also make artists books so richer talking about the book format. I was really keen to play with that as an artist’s book. So for one example, is that I would make a blank artist’s book for each child, a young person.

 

00:16:37:18 – 00:17:00:18

Michelle

And then the things that go in the book of their journey, exploring their journey in a creative, colorful, playful way and recording those conversations. So there were some of the kind of standout initial things from from the the the project brief and the Opportunity Party.

 

00:17:01:02 – 00:17:17:21

Dawn

Have you got anything that different that you would like to add to that? Because what I remember is as a theater maker, you having to think very, very hard about how your practice would fit into the framework that part that Richard had presented you with.

 

00:17:18:01 – 00:17:39:23

Pady

As Michelle said, that it was definitely a challenge for with maybe faith to. The work has always been about connecting with people. It’s always been about life. It’s always been about creating those kind of magical worlds that people enter into and take a journey.

 

00:17:40:09 – 00:18:07:15

Pady

So in many ways, even though it was a challenge, it also fitted really perfectly into the journey of what I believe and what the company believes and how we work. And just creating those kind of magical environments where people feel safe, feel calm, where they can take a journey, and where you can take steps with them to

 

00:18:07:15 – 00:18:21:19

Pady

actually pull out their kind of stories and create them in a physical way. So even though it was a challenge, it was a it was a beautiful challenge and a beautiful journey of all the start of that beautiful journey.

 

00:18:21:19 – 00:18:22:03

Pady

Anyway.

 

00:18:22:12 – 00:18:41:03

Dawn

I’m interested in finding out from all of you. Where where were the surprises to date? Where were the where were the challenges? Where where did you struggle? And imagining that that’ll that’ll be different for all of you? I’m wondering about Tony from South Tyneside.

 

00:18:41:03 – 00:18:46:17

Dawn

Where were the where were the surprises and where were the challenges in setting up this work initially?

 

00:18:47:05 – 00:19:12:04

Tony

Yeah. So I think the surprises and the challenges, so I think for me, I was taken way outside of my comfort zone and and in terms of what was what, what was the day-to-day business? But that was part of why I approached Jonny and yourself initially from from working with you previously and having that trust and having

 

00:19:12:04 – 00:19:39:01

Tony

that kind of understanding and and being confident and comfortable in being able to. To approach yourselves and to be able to take something forward, and I think trust is a very much so as as is needed, that just because at times, yes, I was thinking, you know, where where will this school, where will this lead to?

 

00:19:39:07 – 00:20:05:09

Tony

How will we bring it together? How will we deliver this to to the to the stuff teams to to foster carers? How will that bring it together? And I’ve got to say Richard was the galvanizing. Person within that, because if I recall those, those sessions that we had at the word, which again seems such a long time

 

00:20:05:09 – 00:20:28:05

Tony

ago when I recall those sessions that we had at the word, I’ve got to say, Richard kind of captivated the. This stuff or, you know, almost unanimously, the feedback that we received from that. And in that family give us, give us that the launch pad.

 

00:20:29:19 – 00:20:49:21

Tony

Yes, we’ve had challenges along the way. Yes. Would be put out all I’ve always felt. And I think that’s that’s a good position for us to be in. But in South Tyneside is that we’ve been able to take some risks, some risks in terms of being able to try things out.

 

00:20:50:07 – 00:21:11:14

Tony

I think also when I met with the artists, I was just not not just putting Michelle, because because the here and others, but is this to that initial meeting? How, how much, how much they grasped it initially and in terms of, you know, you referred to the challenge?

 

00:21:11:22 – 00:21:23:04

Tony

Well, I guess what I felt within that room and within the meeting this is, is that, you know, that challenge was shared by everybody and that was such that all of us felt such a good position to be in.

 

00:21:23:12 – 00:21:33:11

Tony

So yes, yes. What challenges? Yes. Was taken out of their comfort zone, but I guess was kind of surrounded by people that were committed to wanting to make this work.

 

00:21:34:04 – 00:21:45:05

Dawn

So, Jenny, I wonder if from a blue carbon perspective, you could say a bit about the challenges and surprises of the collaboration that we embarked upon.

 

00:21:45:07 – 00:22:07:05

Jenny

It’s really brilliant to hear from everybody, actually, because it’s been such a long time since those early days. And I think in looking back from a blue carbon perspective, the I really agree with Tony in that there were certainly challenges and there were a lot of unknowns in those early days, but also agree that we had everybody

 

00:22:07:05 – 00:22:24:13

Jenny

in the room to be able to help figure that out. And that felt really reassuring and relatively quite safe as well. The things also helped, I suppose, were there wasn’t an immediate end point. We didn’t have to get things finished really, really fast.

 

00:22:24:14 – 00:22:41:16

Jenny

I think it would have been a lot more challenging if we had a six month timeframe to deliver a piece of work in. It was it was relatively long term. It was over a year over year and that really helped us think and reduced a challenge to a certain extent that we had time to figure things out

 

00:22:41:16 – 00:23:00:05

Jenny

together. We had time to develop new pieces of work. We had time to work with the artists and support them in their creative thinking, share things with Richard and get Richard’s take on it. So we were given that time, and I think that’s credit to South Tyneside Council and Tony that we were given that trust because I

 

00:23:00:05 – 00:23:14:23

Jenny

think without that it would have felt very different, and I don’t think we would have been able to develop the program that now exists without that trust and without that reassurance and without Tony holding the entire thing, say from a South Tyneside Council point of view.

 

00:23:15:13 – 00:23:35:12

Jenny

I’m certainly, I think, one of the things that that was challenging for us as a company, it was whereabouts in life story. Work would be the place for an artist and an intervention from a company like ours. And I think one of the fantastic things was the fact that with Richard’s model, the three tier model of all

 

00:23:35:12 – 00:23:51:05

Jenny

about me, more about me and therapeutic life story work, it enabled us to focused on, on all, about all, about me, enable us to focus on on a space which was, as Richard described about reflecting on the now questions such as Who am I?

 

00:23:51:16 – 00:24:11:21

Jenny

What are my favorite things? Who was in my life and why? And enabling the artists specifically to focus in on that section. And the six themes gave a structure gave a space for possibility so that the artist could then go away as Michelle and Paddy described and think about how that space could be filled with their own

 

00:24:11:21 – 00:24:32:06

Jenny

stamp as an artist and that huge amount of expertize experience and ways of working, but also combined with Richard support and the training and the framework of all about me. And so it could have been a lot more challenging, I think if we’d have tried to to find space for artists throughout the entire model, and it was

 

00:24:32:06 – 00:24:49:15

Jenny

really, really reassuring that we could focus on all about me, I think. And do you? The challenge for Blue Cabin was the wonder of how best can we make sure artists to help safe because our focus is as a collaborative team together with Richard in South Tyneside Council was always on.

 

00:24:49:21 – 00:25:01:04

Jenny

How can we ensure children are held safely through this process? What mechanisms can we put in place? How can we refer them on for additional support if things come up for them whilst taking part in all about me?

 

00:25:01:07 – 00:25:13:09

Jenny

How can we also support foster carers through that process as well? So we were collectively thinking about that book quite key for us as a company was thinking through in real detail. But what does this mean for artists?

 

00:25:13:16 – 00:25:27:15

Jenny

They will be working in spaces. With children and young people who may be sharing stories, thoughts of past events and actually what we need to do and what we should do as a company is have a duty of care to ensure the artists were supported.

 

00:25:28:05 – 00:25:44:13

Jenny

So for us, the challenge was how could we do that? So the wanderings and the things we put in place were reflection sessions for the artists space that they could and feedback on something called base camp so that they could regularly reflect after sessions and time together to talk.

 

00:25:45:05 – 00:26:03:20

Jenny

They could ring me after each session just to have a chat or dropped me a text just to let me know how things went. And the other outcome of it is we’ve also now introduced them supervision for them by a therapist because actually, it’s very, very important that they have a safe space to reflect on what’s happening

 

00:26:03:20 – 00:26:20:23

Jenny

in those all about me sessions as well. So that was certainly a challenge for us and certainly something we took a lot of time thinking through. And and I think the last challenge because there were many years and we’re hopefully working through that with the what works and funded program is the sustainability, the embedding, the policy and

 

00:26:20:23 – 00:26:40:20

Jenny

processes that underpin this model and ensuring that this is something that a local authority can take on the can the can in bed, they can make a life and live as a system, as a process, as something really rich and valuable in their practice, in the way that they work in their governance models.

 

00:26:41:04 – 00:26:53:21

Jenny

And I think what works and to funding isn’t going to enable us to really think about through a lot more detail with South Tyneside Council who’ve been through this with us already, but also then supporting Gateshead and Darlington to think that through as well.

 

00:26:54:05 – 00:27:06:08

Dawn

Richard, I was going to ask now that we’re two years into this project, what difference do you think that it’s beginning to make from when we started in 2018?

 

00:27:06:17 – 00:27:26:06

Richard

I think that, first of all, we know each other much better. I think we know each of the strengths and weaknesses, and I think that actually just thinking around what Jenny was saying and Tony was saying, you know, there are people that are really comfortable in training or describing or sharing, but there’s needs to be leadership.

 

00:27:26:07 – 00:27:45:11

Richard

There needs to be a belief. And I think that what I found when I first got involved was that that belief was very much within Tony Blue Cupboard. And then I think that what happened was in the training, but also with Anthony and other people, that there was this actual clarification that this is where we’re going to

 

00:27:45:11 – 00:28:01:08

Richard

go rather than this is where we think we might go. Well, this is what I’m considering going. There was a clear this is where we’re going. So if people like me, that’s easy, then because I can just hopefully help support, think through, but also in a way be managed.

 

00:28:01:08 – 00:28:19:11

Richard

And I’m always saying to people that I know I’m never very good at managing anything. I can’t manage myself half the time. So where I can actually be an engaged in a project where, you know, playing to my strengths, but also seeing people in the project that have their strengths and seeing that over the last two years

 

00:28:19:11 – 00:28:40:11

Richard

really unify, I think that’s been the most amazing thing for me, also the artist. So again, it was not something I ever considered in all about me. I saw it as being an individual exercise between an adult and a child, potentially that carer and actually seeing all about be done within a kind of creative space with young

 

00:28:40:11 – 00:28:57:12

Richard

people joining in. You know, has been remarkable, and I think that the talent of the artists that we have are immense. I’ve had the privilege of watching most of the art kind of approaches, and I always go back to that moment we had at.

 

00:28:57:12 – 00:29:15:18

Richard

I think it’s cool to say, tell me if I’m wrong, but I think it was called the sage where we were in that very, very small cupboard. And the artist had all put up their ideas. And I just looked and I just thought, Oh, my goodness me, this is really how this can work.

 

00:29:16:13 – 00:29:31:11

Richard

So now watching it kind of going into this beautiful, researched opportunity where we’re all wanting the same thing, but we can all see the challenges for us that we’re all up for it. And I think that’s the point.

 

00:29:31:12 – 00:29:46:10

Richard

So I think for me, Dawn, what’s what’s developed is Tony and his team taking it and going with it, showing people that it can work, and then his colleagues in Darlington and Gateshead thinking, Actually, yes, we can make this happen.

 

00:29:47:05 – 00:29:51:13

Richard

But nothing would have happened if it hadn’t been for the leadership from Blue Cup. And Tony, I think.

 

00:29:51:17 – 00:30:02:04

Dawn

Michel, I wondered if you wanted to say anything about the difference that this work has made to you as an artist and of the projects that you’re involved in.

 

00:30:02:08 – 00:30:25:17

Michelle

It’s made a huge difference. Absolutely. I mean, as I said earlier, it was something that when a cartoon I knew what I wanted to do at the heart of cartoon was help people use using. Make and use are not activities, and I mean, to have the amazing tree and and from Richard, that that’s really underpinned obviously the

 

00:30:25:17 – 00:30:50:22

Michelle

life story work, but it’s also helped us. You know, another other kind of areas of cartoons. So a lot of my work is with usually with adults, some adults with vulnerabilities, maybe disabilities, older people that are isolated, all sorts of things that people are really dealing with just as the children and young people, you know, that are

 

00:30:51:22 – 00:31:17:19

Michelle

they’re dealing with such tricky, you know, issues in the life story work. So it’s that underpinning really from that training, from the opportunity of having to think and come up with like really innovative ideas. I mean, not was that what a fantastic opportunity, but also kind of quite scary because these are work.

 

00:31:18:06 – 00:31:39:19

Michelle

So, you know, we’re putting into local authority situations so that the activities and had to work and few. Fortunately, that’s it. But being able to take on some of those things that I’ve developed as tools into some other areas for Facetune, it’s been it’s been immense.

 

00:31:39:19 – 00:32:01:08

Michelle

And I mean, you can’t measure it. And I think one other thing just to mention is it’s about confidence as an artist and taking on new work. So I’m, you know, obviously it’s nice to be involved in the blue carbon projects and and being able to take the confidence that I’ve gained from the all about me work

 

00:32:01:16 – 00:32:13:21

Michelle

and saying, Well, actually, oh, that’s a wee bit scary, but yes, I can do it or I’ll give it a good go anyway. So, you know, that’s on a personal level. That’s been fantastic as well.

 

00:32:14:07 – 00:32:22:09

Dawn

Yeah, and party same question. What’s different is this work being involved in all about me? What difference does it make to you?

 

00:32:22:15 – 00:32:54:21

Pady

Oh, again, it’s it’s absolutely huge. There’s so, so many things. But I think I think one the overall collaboration, the overall collaboration with the different artists and the different journeys and also all the people that we’ve met along this journey through Blue Cab, including Richard, including Tony again, like Michelle said, all the training that really give you

 

00:32:55:04 – 00:33:22:02

Pady

an incredible foundation as a kind of artist to grow and. But also, the collaboration with the artists was was one of the really kind of key things because we all took such an incredible and different journey and those kind of sharing of the stories and our practices and really sort of helped me grow kind of as a

 

00:33:22:08 – 00:33:42:05

Pady

as a practitioner and helping the company grow. But I also think a huge, huge, huge, huge, huge thing. And I say that a lot is that relationship and connection that we made with the young people and the outdoors when we started to work with them.

 

00:33:42:14 – 00:34:06:21

Pady

I could never have imagined how much sense young people and adults brought my work to life and opened doors to my work that I never, ever imagined. I mean, Mimi Theater works very faithfully, so it is very much about creating those worlds like an installation that they come into.

 

00:34:07:15 – 00:34:39:19

Pady

They feel safe, they feel curious, and it sparks our imagination. But it became such an incredible and beautiful relationship between the young person, the actor myself, and just how they and how they brought the objects to life, how they, you know, veil kind of stories that I never imagined, how they were really kind of how they treat

 

00:34:39:19 – 00:34:59:05

Pady

the objects so preciously. And and, you know, that was so key. And it made me look completely at the the whole world that I use and the objects, the masks, the props in a completely different way. And for me, I think that was incredible.

 

00:35:00:00 – 00:35:23:01

Pady

And that’s really stayed with me. It’s really stayed with me, any plays over and over in my mind and when again I return to my practice, I look at the things that I use of how how they were brought to life and how they were brought to life in such and such a different way was quite incredible

 

00:35:23:12 – 00:35:28:14

Pady

. And so that was really, really a key thing for me. Those things.

 

00:35:29:04 – 00:35:41:13

Dawn

Tony, I wondered what how that translates into your role in the local authority. What are the differences that this work’s making now that we’re two years in?

 

00:35:42:01 – 00:36:02:22

Tony

Yeah, I think very much so. one of the things that we wanted to move on was where life story work wasn’t seen as an event or a task or a piece of work. And certainly what what the creative life story work was able to do was almost three people up.

 

00:36:03:21 – 00:36:22:20

Tony

Some of the the feedback that we received from children, young people and from care was just, I mean, for example, in terms of carers talked about how it was such a wonderful experience and how it was fun and how it was light hearted.

 

00:36:23:09 – 00:36:42:11

Tony

But one of the comments kind of stood out for me as I learned so much about male arts. And that was such a lovely that was just such a lovely thing to hear. So for me, it’s a bit about kind of changing the mindset and changing the culture in terms of how life story work is approached.

 

00:36:42:18 – 00:37:00:14

Tony

And it’s not seen as something but is there for us in events and the creative life story. Workers has been able to do that because I think for me, a success is for those have taken part in it, for those carers, for the children, young people, for those that have observed at the superstar support.

 

00:37:00:14 – 00:37:19:16

Tony

But gas and how that’s how that new system kind of went out over is very much that. That’s that’s that’s the message, Susskind. So that helps change the culture within within South Tyneside as to how life story about the student and therefore then how would support differently.

 

00:37:20:13 – 00:37:36:01

Tony

I think, you know, in terms of, you know, as Paddy and Michelle’s experience is there, you get a strong sense from that and certainly from this and in terms of our children, young people and foster carers, that’s that.

 

00:37:36:01 – 00:37:50:04

Tony

That’s what’s kind of set back. And you know, the key thing that comes from young people is how much they enjoyed it, how much they just they just enjoyed it. So there’s so much to do, so much to be learned from that.

 

00:37:50:19 – 00:38:06:22

Dawn

And my last question to all of you is, what are our hopes? We’ve got more work to do on all about me with three local authorities. So I’m going to go to Jenny first blue. What are blue cabins?

 

00:38:06:22 – 00:38:10:17

Dawn

Hopes for the next steps in this story?

 

00:38:10:22 – 00:38:40:21

Jenny

And I think one of the things that we we really want to do and we hope that this work enables is for care, experienced children and young people to. To have ongoing spaces to explore, talk about, ask questions in relation to their life story and it not be a one off a piece of work in their life

 

00:38:41:16 – 00:39:02:20

Jenny

because that’s that’s just not reality. And I still ask and have the luxury of asking my, my mum and dad questions about when I was little about what happened about family members and what we would always want. This work to do is be never off the table for care, experienced children and young people to be curious about

 

00:39:03:09 – 00:39:24:01

Jenny

what’s going on in their life to that point. And I think our hope is that the creative life story model is is providing that space and that either can be through a creative experience in the All About Me part of the model facilitated by the artists and pastoral support workers.

 

00:39:24:01 – 00:39:42:23

Jenny

All that could be through direct work, all about me with a trusted person in their life, all through more about me, your therapeutic life story work. But it’s those moments or spaces of conversation and exploration so that it’s in a way, if possible, and part of the everyday rather than something that you do.

 

00:39:42:23 – 00:40:02:14

Jenny

Life story work only when somebody comes round to visit you for life story work. Actually, life story work is is an ongoing conversation that’s just never off the table, and I think I will hope for that would be that the people who were working in local authorities and also foster carers feel empowered to be able to to

 

00:40:02:19 – 00:40:24:04

Jenny

have those conversations, feel confident to feel supported to and and that children feel as though there’s a safe space for those conversations to take place. And I think one of our hopes, too, is that the feedback that we got from children who took part in the creative experiences in South Tyneside and their carers, hopefully will also be

 

00:40:24:04 – 00:40:36:21

Jenny

the feedback we get when this is rolled out to Gateshead and Darlington and continued in South Tyneside. So if possible, I just want to just read a bit of feedback from a carer and a foster carer from South Tyneside and also from a child.

 

00:40:37:07 – 00:40:57:12

Jenny

As part of the evaluation of the creative experiences, they got to write a letter to the head of and children’s services Sean Gallagher. And then the letters went direct to her and she opened them up and got this feedback directly about the creative experiences that Paddy and Michelle and Elinor and Nicola with pastoral support workers facilitated.

 

00:40:57:12 – 00:41:11:07

Jenny

So I just wanted to give that direct feedback, if that’s possible. And so this is from a foster carer, said Dear Shauna. We attended the All About Me session with Meg, supported by Kerry. My little one is ten and absolutely love the sessions.

 

00:41:11:08 – 00:41:25:01

Jenny

Nick was fantastic and each session was so different. My little one loved the activities without her realizing it. We were having some great conversations about her past and she was opening up about different elements. They were very subtle, but big steps for her.

 

00:41:25:13 – 00:41:38:11

Jenny

I recommended the sessions to other carers. It really was nice to do something one to one with my little one, which had so much meaning in a safe environment. Kerry was on hand to support the whole group and her experience of life story work was invaluable.

 

00:41:39:08 – 00:41:53:12

Jenny

And then from and one of the children who attended the All About Me project was very good. It was a creative way to learn about me and what has made me. I like the fact that we met new people and we could share what we had went through and how it has helped us.

 

00:41:54:04 – 00:42:05:20

Jenny

The part I found hard was thinking back to my past. So Nick came up with a different way, which helped me overall. All about me was good and it’s helped me to understand what my life was like and how I have changed.

 

00:42:05:20 – 00:42:06:10

Jenny

Thank you.

 

00:42:07:01 – 00:42:17:17

Dawn

Very good that we’ve got the voice of the child in the room as well. Richard, what would your hopes be for the next chapter of all about me?

 

00:42:18:00 – 00:42:30:21

Richard

Well, I mean, first of all, it’s hard to follow what it’s just been said, but I would say that. We are what we were. And sometimes not being able to talk about that means we’re confused about the world.

 

00:42:30:21 – 00:42:47:01

Richard

We occupy both our internal world and also our external world. So to have a way in which we can share who we are, we can think who we are and we can make sense of who we are. It’s going to be absolutely crucial for our mental health, for our self well-being and our health.

 

00:42:47:10 – 00:43:08:20

Richard

So I think that for me, I would hope that the project going from South Tyneside and beautifully led to the neighboring authorities will then itself lead forward across the whole of the country. And I think that the one thing I would say for me anyway is that when you do see children and young people realize they have

 

00:43:08:20 – 00:43:26:09

Richard

worth and where they have that worth, which is that shared with other children, the biggest kind of marketing we could ever have is when a child says to another child, you should do this. So my hope is that that’s what’s going to happen, that other children will say to their peers, I did this work with Paddy, I

 

00:43:26:09 – 00:43:42:04

Richard

did this work with Michelle. I did this work with whoever and it helped me. You should do it, too. And I think that’s something that, you know, is very precious to us as adults. You know, who are, you know, kind of working with care experience children or, as Tony said, right at the beginning.

 

00:43:42:13 – 00:43:57:22

Richard

Seeing these people lost, if we can just have one little play in allowing young people to be heard. I think we’ll make all the difference. So my hope is it succeeds where Blue Carbon and Tony started off in a process which helps all children.

 

00:43:58:02 – 00:44:03:21

Dawn

Paddy hopes. Hopes from from you, the artist.

 

00:44:04:15 – 00:44:30:10

Pady

I think in a similar way to some of the things that other people have said is that you really. I feel very fortunate as a person to be able to look back on my life and know my life and it be incredibly clear and have those really clear relationships with my parents, my, you know, my brothers and

 

00:44:30:10 – 00:44:53:08

Pady

so on. And so I mean, my hope is that. We can continue to kind of help people to be able to tell their stories, to be able to, yeah, to be able to help them. Open, open those kind of doors to allow them to be able to reflect and make sense of the kind of journey that they’re

 

00:44:54:01 – 00:45:16:20

Pady

that they’ve taken so far, but also help help them really look forward to come and continue and in that journey and that they they don’t have to come and look back in in a kind of sound way. But they can also look back in a positive way and they can look forward in a positive way.

 

00:45:17:05 – 00:45:45:11

Pady

But I think the hope is to continue to kind of help people help people on a journey through life really simple and and really help them to be able to be able to look at their lives and make sense of that and hopefully by making sense of it, that that then helps them have a happy, happy life

 

00:45:46:08 – 00:46:08:16

Pady

in a playful life and be able to come and then face the challenges of life because we all have challenges in life, but able to face those challenges in a really positive way and just simply know in in a really human way as well that you know that it’s a real kind of pleasure to be be here

 

00:46:08:16 – 00:46:24:22

Pady

in life and to continue. I think that’s just really important. And so the hope is that this continues on to help people sort of live out a really beautiful life if they can.

 

00:46:25:22 – 00:46:26:16

Dawn

And Michelle.

 

00:46:27:00 – 00:46:47:17

Michelle

Well, just I mean, just to reiterate what Patti said, I think that notion, you know, as artists that work and with this kind of the life story work is we want to make, try and make a difference, even if it’s a tiny difference and hopefully leave a legacy with the children and young people and the carers.

 

00:46:47:17 – 00:47:03:17

Michelle

So it’s a legacy to say, well, actually, it can be playful and you can use that to promote conversation. It can be a legacy in terms of the relationship. Hopefully, you know, between the child and the carer that they’ve embarked on this journey together.

 

00:47:03:17 – 00:47:23:09

Michelle

So hopefully there’s a legacy there. And I mean, we’ve taken that into a new realm of potentially online with materials and kits. So hopefully they’ll have that’ll have a legacy in terms of materials and resources to to to use again and to build on their life story.

 

00:47:23:09 – 00:47:39:01

Michelle

Books are the life story projects and that it’s it’s it’s a continuation and nothing absolutely vital that we invest in our children and young people. That’s absolutely vital. And this is just one way of to win that. So, yeah, more of it, please.

 

00:47:39:18 – 00:47:56:06

Dawn

Thanks, Michel. Thank you, Michel. And last word to Tony, the sender of that email two years ago to Jenny, the start of the story. So what are your hopes for creative life story work as we move forward?

 

00:47:56:22 – 00:48:18:15

Tony

So I’ll go back to where I started. I think Dawn and and my hope is, is that? Care experienced adults don’t feel the need that they have to come back to their records to find things that are missing within their life because we’ve got to the point where we work and where that systematically will work, and so

 

00:48:18:15 – 00:48:42:01

Tony

that will help our young people and children. Young people now help understand their life as it was and as it is and what they mean for going forward. So that’s that’s what my hope is. And I think, you know, again, because of this, because of this program, because of creative life story work, it has been it’s made

 

00:48:42:02 – 00:49:01:05

Tony

impact. I think it’s a said about wanting to kind of change the culture. So, for example, our social workers know to for children, look left and care, leave us that the person advised us that they’re right and that they’re right and the right word to write and record and to the child, to the young person.

 

00:49:01:14 – 00:49:14:20

Tony

And that in itself just puts a different slant on things that makes people think differently because then what they’re doing is that they actually do. They all write in the report because it’s the child and it’s a young person’s record.

 

00:49:16:03 – 00:49:40:05

Tony

Yesterday, for example, I took part in a full day that was a pitch where we are developing a virtual memory box. And so there was seven different companies kind of set up. And, you know, we thought we have a plan to have that open run from August of this year.

 

00:49:40:21 – 00:49:53:06

Tony

That would never have happened without this. I’ve got no doubt. I’ve got no doubt that this wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t for where we are now, because that’s that’s the road that set us off on. So, yes.

 

00:49:53:21 – 00:49:54:21

Tony

But that’s my goal.

 

00:49:55:05 – 00:50:14:22

Dawn

Thank you very much. So that’s the end of my questions today. So I’d like to say a big thank you to Tony and Jenny. Richard, Michelle and Patti for your time this afternoon for such a lovely, relaxed and reflective conversation, it’s been really lovely to think back two years to where we all began.

 

00:50:15:21 – 00:50:35:19

Dawn

And I’m really looking forward to being part of the next chapters and seeing where we will end up. So thank you very much for being part of our first podcast on Creative Life Story Work. So whether you’re a foster carer, someone who has experience of the care system or you work with children and young people.

 

00:50:36:03 – 00:50:54:03

Dawn

We hope this episode has given you an insight into how we could make life story work better for young people. We’d love to hear your thoughts so you can tweet us on after we are through COVID, or if you’re one of the 15 hundred people taking part in our Creative Life Story Work Learning program.

 

00:50:54:11 – 00:51:15:22

Dawn

You can always get in touch through the online learning platform if you’d like to listen to future episodes. Remember to subscribe wherever it is. You usually get your podcasts, or you can listen on our website at WW W Dot We are Blue Cabin Dot Com Forward Slash C LSW podcast.

 

00:51:16:11 – 00:51:17:03

Dawn

Thank you!