Podcast Season 4: Episode 7 – Lessons from lived experience

Please note that this transcript is auto-generated and therefore will contain some errors and natural pauses in conversation.

[00:00:00] DAWN: Welcome to the Creative Life Story Work podcast, where we explore how to make life story work better for all care experienced children and young people. Creative life story work is an approach which can improve children and young people’s lives and their relationships with others both at home and at school.

[00:00:28] It’s based on the Rose model of therapeutic life story work.

[00:00:37] Every month we’ll explore a different aspect of creative life story work and we’ll give insights into how you can use this approach to help care experienced children and young people make sense of their past and build a brighter future. Today, we are focusing on the unique challenges and opportunities that care experienced children and young people encounter while shaping and expressing their identities.

[00:01:03] And I’m really delighted to welcome back to our podcast studio, Mary-anne Hodd. Mary-anne is a care experience teacher, trainer, and speaker. She combines her lived experience of and training in psychology and is proud to be levering this unique combination of experiences. to incite positive change and improved outcomes for children and young people who have experienced early adversity.

[00:01:29] She’s also a training practitioner from trauma informed consultancy services, which offers an extensive range of training sessions related to all aspects of how we can apply a trauma informed framework to settings, services, and systems. A very good morning, Mary-anne, and welcome to our podcast studio.

[00:01:50] MARY-ANNE: Morning, morning. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:53] DAWN: I wondered whether you would like to share a little bit about some of your early life experiences and, and how that influences who you are today.

[00:02:17] MARY-ANNE: Yeah, sure. That’s definitely a good starting point for us Dawn. So, I guess the main thing that drives me in everything that I do, especially kind of around this conversation of identity and my training that I deliver, is my background and care. So I grew up in foster care. I was in and out from birth and then permanently from the age of nine and Then I went on to kind of study psychology and then teaching and then found myself kind of getting pulled back into the world of Care and I guess a lot of what really guides me is is younger me.

[00:02:56] It’s quite funny Actually, I used to find it really awkward and difficult to talk about the childhood version of, of, of Mary. I used to very much be like, I am living in the present. I’m focused on what I’m focused on, and I don’t need to think about the past. But since kind of doing a lot of work, I would guess, on myself in the last few years, I’ve kind of That those early experiences of growing up in an environment of real kind of chaos and neglect and abuse in various forms to my experiences throughout my time in foster care, really kind of influence everything that I do and who I am now.

[00:03:34] So yeah, in a nutshell, I guess. The main thing that drives me really is, is my perspective of, of what it was like to be a child in care and thinking about now what made the difference for me, you know, why was I kind of maybe okay when a lot of the stuff that surrounded me I felt told me that I shouldn’t be.

[00:03:56] DAWN: What would you name as being some of the things that were really important to supporting you being the person you are today?

[00:04:05] MARY-ANNE: Yeah, so much. And I ask myself this so often when I think about the difference between me and my little brother because we had very different outcomes. He kind of experienced a bout of homelessness after care and, and had a very different journey.

[00:04:20] And I think about what I maybe had and he didn’t. And I think the, one of the biggest things that I come back to time and time again is simply At each point in my life, I can pinpoint at least one person that I felt genuinely really cared about me. And, like, when I walked into the room, they lit up and they were excited to have me around, and, like, I felt a genuine investment in my life.

[00:04:48] And I don’t know if my brother could say the same, so I think that’s, that’s probably the biggest one for me, having adults around that were genuinely invested in me. And also some of the practicalities of my care experience in the sense that I, we lived with one family for our entire time in care. Uh, and me and my little brother were not split up.

[00:05:08] Now, I don’t know where I’d be today if we had been split up, but it wouldn’t be sat here with you guys having this conversation. I can guarantee that. Here’s my absolute world. You know, so I think that that combination is really key, but that, that genuinely kind of, Feeling cared, cared for, cared about, made a real difference in my, in my early years, for me growing up in care.

[00:05:32] DAWN: So building really trusting relationships with a range of people and almost like a support network there as well. So I’m just thinking there about some of the people who might be listening to this. What could caregivers, social workers, or. What other adults do? You described it beautifully as lighting up when you walked into the room.

[00:05:55] What is it that they could be doing for the children that they’re supporting?

[00:06:01] MARY-ANNE: I think one of the key things for me to think about is this, the conversation to have as well is, I think for sometimes, It can be really difficult when you think about the nature of being in care when you have so many people in your life and, and often those, the people around you are changing and are not consistent.

[00:06:19] And it can sometimes, I think, from that perspective of whether that’s a carer, a social worker, a professional side, can sometimes feel like, I’m not in this person’s life for very long, what difference can I really make? You know, for me, It’s been some of the people that have been in my life for the shorted, shortest period of times that have made the biggest difference to me and I don’t think they would even realize now the difference that they had.

[00:06:44] I would have to go and find them and tell them. I’ve actually done that with some of my teachers previously and a social worker. And said kind of like, do you know the difference you made just because they didn’t come into the room clipboard first or with their agenda, they came in kind of ready to meet me where I was at, and they gave space for me to be a child, for me to play, for me to laugh, to have fun, to, to learn to be creative and to give me space to, you know, Start to have all of the things that I missed out on in my early years, I think, you know, my early years are so much focused on survival, on just getting by.

[00:07:24] And I think the adults that really made a difference actually created space for me to be a child again, and to make mistakes, if we want to call it that, you know. When you’re in care, everything you do is written down, recorded, spoken about between team members, and how that stuff is handled is really important, right?

[00:07:40] So thinking about, you know, we’re recording this is important. Mary messed up and this was a big mistake and a big challenge and we need to think about this. Or actually was this part of Mary being a teenager and testing boundaries and figuring out life and we’re here, like you said Dawn, as that support network, right?

[00:07:56] We’re there as that safety net, allowing her to take safe risks because if she doesn’t do it when she’s with us, she’ll do it when she leaves. So that space to kind of take, take risks. Yeah, take safe risks, be a child, have fun, play, all of the stuff that I’ve so missed out on in those first years of my life.

[00:08:12] DAWN: As you’re talking, the headlines that you’re giving us there about the building of trusting relationships and the support network, but then creating that really safe container for you to, you talked about playing in it or making mistakes. Yeah. I’m just wondering about. How the care system, that massive big, so this is a huge question, Mary, how that care system, how can it create those environments where children are allowed to thrive and be themselves?

[00:08:48] What would the care system look like if it had those containers for children to be able to push those boundaries and try out different things?

[00:08:59] MARY-ANNE: Yeah, it’s hard, isn’t it? I wish I had all the answers for that as well, because it’s one of the biggest challenges when I talk to foster carers and, and social workers and, and, you know, even teachers when we speak about kind of being confined by the role that they are assigned and having to follow the red tape and the bureaucracy and they’re kind of, you know, foster carers particularly are told to, you know, treat your young people as if they were your own.

[00:09:24] with a little bit more, is what I say, because we need that bit extra. But often there’s so much kind of around them that prevents them from doing that. So it’s, it’s a really massive question, right? And this, we understand so much of the kind of safeguarding necessities around the roles and what we can and can’t do.

[00:09:42] But I think, you know, I think start, it starts from the language we speak and the recordings and how we record and how we, you know, support young people, you know, understanding themselves and having compassion and empathy and with, with themselves. And at certain times, I think for me, a basic starting point is that anybody that works with and around children, young people in care should have the basic training of a therapeutic trauma informed approach.

[00:10:12] Uh, And I think that’s what we can do on the people side of it. The system side is much harder. It’s the same when we talk about language, because it’s like, it’s all very well we can, we can start to change our language, but embedding that change in the system takes a much longer time, right? And it’ll be the same with this kind of strengths based trauma informed therapeutic approaches to care.

[00:10:35] Embedding it is a very different thing. And it comes with that fine balance between, yeah, allowing children to take risks and. Make mistakes, if you wanna call it that. And alongside the need to protect them and keep them safe. And it’s a really, it’s a really hard balance, I would say, with that. I think it, I think the con, the having the conversations is a starting point, right?

[00:10:57] Having the conversations, connecting with the reality of what it feels like to be a young person in care and the influence and the impact of that. Right? So, you know, identity, for example, just understanding how. young people’s identities are in care can be fractured time and time again and the impact of that and then starting to understand well okay what can we do to repair some of those ruptures but yeah it’s a massive question i don’t i wish i had all the answers for that one

[00:11:24] DAWN: let’s go to a short break so that listeners can hear more about blue cabin’s creative life story work membership offer

[00:11:32] Trailer (2): we want people to gain more of an understanding about what it’s like to be care experienced and uh Have a better understanding of what it actually means.

[00:11:41] Could creative life story work make a difference to the care experienced children and young people you work with? Maybe you’re a social worker. I think we forget at our peril that actually telling a child the story of their early life is one of the most profound uses of social work power that we could ever operate.

[00:12:03] Perhaps you’re a foster carer. You know, when they say it’s all about the child, it’s not because our experiences, it’s about the carer and the child. And it just gives a new angle to our relationship because we’re learning about each other together. A Creative Life Story Work membership will give you, or your whole team, Access to resources, including activities you can use in direct work with children and young people.

[00:12:29] Training with life story work experts, and lots more. And I think a lot of our children are looking for meaning, looking for, you know, well why is it I feel this way when my You know, my friends don’t. Why is it I get angry internally and my friends don’t? The greatest thing we see is when we are able to say to young people, this is your story.

[00:12:48] This is about who you are. And then children towards the end say, it’s not my fault that these things happened, but it is something that I can do something about. And once we have that, then we know we can move forward. Find out about our membership for individuals and for organizations on our website creativelifestorywork.com

[00:13:09] DAWN: I’m thinking of public perception. Yeah, and I’m just wondered what you thought about the portrayal of care experienced individuals in the media and how accurate that is. I wonder if there’s been any media representation of care experienced individuals that you actually think reflects accurately. Are there any times that you thought, oh yeah, that’s, that, you know, that’s a positive thing there, that’s actually accurate, that’s how it feels?

[00:13:41] MARY-ANNE: Yeah, so, I really personally actually struggle with this because I really struggle to watch or be too involved in, in the characters. in the media, especially in film and TV, because so often we are portrayed as the villain. And it’s the same, it’s the same with adoptees. And it’s kind of like, they’re the, the outsider that comes in and messes everything up.

[00:14:03] And is the bad trial and such. I really, I really struggle with that. I know that, I do think things are changing. I think, you know, there’s. Some great stuff that’s going on with getting care experienced voice out there in a positive way. One thing that pops to my mind recently is the work with John Lewis and kind of getting care experienced designs out there and a lot, they’re doing a lot of different elements of work, aren’t they, with care experienced young people, which is great.

[00:14:26] And there is a, there’s a TV show as well. I’ve not watched it because, again, I have to like really get myself into that. energy space, I guess, to watch care experience stuff. But I’ve heard some good stuff about the TV show called Alma’s Not Normal. And I don’t know if you’ve heard of that, Dawn.

[00:14:43] DAWN: I have. And I remember one scene that I found really, really powerful was where she received a all of her case notes in lots and lots of boxes and was left to, well, actually her friend was reading them. We’d been talking to some care leavers that week who had actually that experience where these boxes just arrived at their flat, delivered special recording.

[00:15:07] And so I thought the way that they handled that was really powerful. But yeah.

[00:15:12] MARY-ANNE: Yeah.

[00:15:13] DAWN: Yeah.

[00:15:14] MARY-ANNE: That blows my mind, doesn’t it? That that still happens. It’s, it’s just. It’s just wild the more you think about it, like, this understanding of, like, what that is to us. Like, it’s part of the ownership of our story, of our life journey, of our history, of who we are, of where we’ve come from, of where we belong, of what’s happened to us.

[00:15:32] And it, you know, I, I know the same people that have just had it kind of thrown over the garden fence and, and off you go and, you know, my files were delivered to me. Over a year later from when I applied to them, mine virtually, so on an online secure link, and there was like no words about what I was about to open.

[00:15:52] There was just a bunch of files with dates on and not in chronological order and it left me with more questions than answers. And I think, you know, I kind of, I got my files knowing a good knowing what had happened in my life. I didn’t have many questions. And so I think, gosh, what must the impact for that be for young people that are looking for answers in their files, looking for that tapestry of their life.

[00:16:18] It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s intense. It really is.

[00:16:21] DAWN: And so now you talked at the very beginning about looking back to the young Marianne. What about looking forward now? How will your identity continue? to evolve and change as, as you grow into different roles?

[00:16:37] MARY-ANNE: Yeah, it’s funny, isn’t it? Because I mean, for me personally, I work, I’m still very much intertwined in the world of care because of what I do.

[00:16:45] And, and, and I think, you know, there was one point in my life where I was embarrassed of my care experience. I didn’t want people to know I was bullied because of it. I felt ashamed. I felt like I was a bad, naughty child. And that is an all too common experience. And. Actually, right, care is supposed to be the safe space that picks you up when stuff goes wrong at home.

[00:17:08] It’s supposed to be the place that makes things better. And if it was doing that, then my care experience is not something that I should ever be ashamed of or want to hide. And, you know, I’ve had this conversation with other young people that have also experienced bullying, and kind of saying to them, you know, that actually, The fact that I’m here today, just here, is an achievement in itself because, you know, we’ve been through in our early years more than some people will in their entire lifetimes.

[00:17:39] And the fact that we can just show up each day is an achievement in itself. So I’m learning to, like, yeah, I’ve learned to, like, really be myself. Be accepting and, and have this as a proud part of my identity. And I think where I’m at now in my life is that I’m a new mom. Yeah, it’s very exciting. We were talking earlier.

[00:18:00] I’ve got my nine months old. Last time I was with you guys, I was just about to go on maternity and we’re very much on the other side of it now. This

[00:18:08] DAWN: might be our first podcast. Baby, Mary-anne.

[00:18:12] MARY-ANNE: Yeah, that’s, that’s great. I love that. Blue cabin babies. Yeah, he’s, he’s, and he’s amazing. I’m absolutely obsessed with him and That, that is my new chapter now, right?

[00:18:24] This chapter, this, this parenthood and everything that comes with it. And, and I tell you what Dawn, it’s really complex as well. And also, like, I feel so blessed and I love it so much. And at the same time, I feel, it makes me feel really sad for little Mary and it makes me feel really reflective and have a lot of memories that come up from my childhood that I’d kind of forgotten about and, you know, thinking about things like, I don’t have traditions to pass down to my little one.

[00:18:56] I don’t have many pictures of me when I was little. I don’t have. Stories and, like, stories about what my favourite books were or my favourite shows or, you know, anything like that. Because all of that was kind of lost and I have real snippets of memories that are not often in chronological order and very messy and I’m just really grateful that my husband has a lot of that tapestry that we can lean on his side for the traditions and stuff and create our own.

[00:19:25] But this new chapter, I guess, is now about me being able to say, It’s my time to do it differently, you know, like he will only know love and safety and all of the things that I didn’t have and that intergenerational trauma of this kind of, I’m going to do my darnedest to make sure it stops with me. I

[00:19:43] DAWN: love the,

[00:19:43] MARY-ANNE: I’m sure.

[00:19:45] Oh, sorry.

[00:19:45] DAWN: I just can say I love the idea of. Creating new rituals together as well to pass down.

[00:19:51] MARY-ANNE: Yeah, that’s it. And I can get really excited about that stuff now, right? About like what, what we’re going to do on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and what this is going to look like for us as our family now.

[00:20:02] And I feel really, really grateful to be able to do that and to make it look so different because there’s definitely, you know, been points in my life growing up that I didn’t have that hope or that aspiration for my future, I guess. And I feel very grateful to be able to sit here and talk to you about that.

[00:20:17] My little boy and the life we’re building in the way that I am.

[00:20:20] DAWN: So I think my final question then is what would be one message that you would like to share with care experienced children and young people about how they can navigate their own life?

[00:20:36] MARY-ANNE: Oh gosh, there’s too many to say one thing because I think it’s all, it’s all lots of things intertwined for me.

[00:20:43] But I think a big thing for me is having real kind of compassion, With yourself and kindness with yourself and a sense of gentleness with yourself and knowing that it doesn’t always have to be the way that it was and you might not be able to see the change in the future just yet, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not coming.

[00:21:08] I mean, focus on what you can control, focus on your, on, yes, the present and, you know, through hopefully the support that you have around you. And. Opportunities like, you know, life story work, you can build a tapestry of your past, but I think for me, having that sense, you know, when I was 18 and I left care, I was very much lost in terms of my own identity.

[00:21:32] I remember thinking I don’t know who I am, what I believe in, where I stand. Am I my, my mum and my dad’s beliefs and what they’ve been through? Am I my foster parents beliefs and what they’ve been through? But actually I don’t really align with any of it. What makes me, me? And I felt really lost in that.

[00:21:48] And actually just knowing that that that’s okay to feel that way sometimes and you don’t have to have all the answers to it and just focus on what you can do day in day out looking after yourself building your support networks you know all of the things that help me stay afloat like really simple stuff of eating well exercising you know doing a bit of breath work or mindfulness find the things that help you stay afloat focus on that stay stay in the present in that sense and know that Just because it is this way at the moment doesn’t mean it always has to be like that.

[00:22:24] Things change and that can be a good thing, you know.

[00:22:27] DAWN: I think just compassion and only worrying about the things that you can change and having some time and space as well with the things that were shining through there that what you were saying. Thank you so much for our conversation this morning and I’ve really appreciated your time fitting us in around the new baby as well.

[00:22:48] It’s been really, really lovely to speak to you this morning. Thank you very much.

[00:22:52] MARY-ANNE: No, thank you for having me back. This has been great. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Dawn.

[00:22:59] DAWN: Whether you’re a foster carer, someone who has experience with the care system, or you work with children and young people, we hope this episode has given you an insight into how we can make life story work better for young people and how you can use it in your own practice.

[00:23:15] You can find out more about Creative Life Story work on our website, creativelifestorywork.com, and you can find us on LinkedIn and X at Creative L S W. Please do get in touch there with any comments or questions as we’d really love to hear from you. And if your podcast app allows you to, please do leave us a review as it really helps others to find our show.

[00:23:40] So until next month, bye for now.