Podcast season 5: Episode 9 – Emotional regulation in ourselves and others

DAWN (00:10):

Welcome to the Creative Life Story Work Podcast, your regular dose of life story work inspiration. Every month, we bring you life story work ideas, tools, and honest insights from a range of perspectives. Stay connected to the latest thinking in life story work as we talk to people with lived experience, practitioners, local authorities, carers, and people who are shaping the way you help care-experienced children and young people make sense of their past and build a brighter future.

Today, we are focusing on tips, tools on how to support emotional regulation in ourselves and others. And I’m delighted to welcome to our podcast studio, Dr. Karen Treisman. Karen is an award-winning specialist, clinical psychologist, trainer, organisational consultant, and bestselling author working in the UK and internationally. And Karen is also the director of Safe Hands Thinking Minds Training and Consultancy Service. A very, very warm welcome, Karen, to you today.

KAREN (01:31):

Oh, thanks so much, Dawn. Lovely to be back with you again.

DAWN (01:35):

Thank you. I should have said a regular podcaster on our Blue Cabin podcast, Creative Live Story Work podcast. So I wondered when people hear the words emotional regulation, they often think of techniques or strategies, but when you write about it, you talk about understanding it in a more human way. And I wondered about how you would personally explain that to somebody?

KAREN (02:07):

I think there’s lots of different potential avenues with that. And I think it’s important because different words have different meanings or land with different people. I think I often, or talking about the day training that we are going to do is much more around how we can anchor or steady or regulate our own responses or nervous system, whether that might be to get more excited and more energized and amplify and turn the volume up, or whether that’s to sort of whew and turn the volume down and to find a way to steady or ground or anchor. And so when I talk about regulation, some people talk about it as anchoring, grounding, steadying, centering, but really I’m thinking of it from a sort of sensory, physical, nervous system perspective. But how do we find a way to be our best versions of ourselves to be able to learn or explore or play?

DAWN (03:16):

Ooh, thank you. And I did a bit of reading around it. And often people say, or there were questions coming on that they’re told, ‘you should be better at it, better at regulation’. And I wondered about what you would want someone to hold in mind right from the very start when they’re even beginning to think about that work?

KAREN (03:39):

I think, I mean, there’s so much of that in society, isn’t it? Around pressure or making people feel not good enough or like a failure or that there’s a sense of being better at something. And I think all of us have a regulation system and an anchoring system and a nervous system that might have to adapt or evolve to different circumstances and situations. So I certainly wouldn’t prescribe to the language of ‘be better’, but it might be something we can cultivate or harness or practice or find a way to understand it a little bit more. And I suppose one of the big parts of doing that as an adult is that it’s very hard to regulate a child if you’re dysregulated or actually we can become dysregulated when we’re around dysregulation. So it’s more around a way of being, a presence, a skill, but it’s certainly something that we can try to teach and there’s many things that people might have experienced in life like trauma or adversity or stress that can sort of sometimes get in the way of there might be other things that take priority, and so sometimes we might need to practice or cultivate that a little bit more.

DAWN (04:56):

And in terms of cultivating that, what would you say are some gentle ways that people can begin to notice and maybe support their own regulation, especially in the middle of what could be a very demanding or just a very busy day?

KAREN (05:14):

It’s a difficult question to answer that because I think there’s such a TikTok generation of giving these quick tools or strategies that actually what works for one person won’t work for another. And I guess that’s what we’re going to be talking about a lot in the training day is like, how do you select and adapt them and become a bit more attuned? But I suppose part of it is how we start to notice or pay attention to our nervous system, body cues, our sensory needs. But some of the ways is like little micro strategies. So it’s not just the big things, but it might just be different people. It might be something that we’re smelling. It might be something that we’re touching. It might be a particular movement. It might be looking at a particular photo or video. It might be a particular snack that we’re having.

We were just talking about snacks before we started recording. It might be about a particular song. So there’s so many different things that we can do. It might be how we, as simple as when you go to the toilet, how you wash your hands can either wake us up and alert or can bring a bit more of an anchoring ‘whew’ pause moment. So I think there’s so many different cognitive, sensory, physical – some might be breathing, some might be humming, some might be a sigh. It might be a particular item about what clothes you’re wearing and the texture or the sensory experience of the clothes. So there’s so many different things that you can do to sort of nudge and help your nervous system along.

DAWN (06:51):

I’m really interested in nervous system and the impact of that. So how might our nervous system as adults or practitioners shape or affect the climate around children and young people?

KAREN (07:10):

Oh, well, that’s a huge amount, I think on both ways. So I guess when our nervous system is activated or inflamed or hyped up, we can co-escalate instead of co-regulate or we can lead to mutually escalating arousal the same as if I was with you suddenly ‘ahhh’, you would suddenly start feeling a bit, oof. So it can absolutely, we can feel that emotions can be contagious and we can absolutely sort of contribute and amplify that. But equally, the magic of being able to support our nervous systems is that the hope is that we can co-regulate instead of co-escalate so that we can be limbic whisperers, so that when kids have an inflamed or hijack, that we can be their steady or they’re calm, or that we can help to find a new balance or harmony within that. And that’s the beauty of we can pick up and sense and feel the energy or the presence when we’re together.

DAWN (08:17):

Limbic whispering. I love that. So in that limbic whispering, how can someone tell … So if you’re working with a young person, whether they need more energy, like you were saying, or calming down, how do you work out? How do you work out limbic whispering, that’s going to be in my vocabulary. I love that.

KAREN (08:45):

It’s a good one. So I suppose a couple of bits with that. So being a limbic whisperer, as you said, it means that might be to up-regulate or amplify things or to bring things down. It might be limbic calmer or limbic pump up or limbic whisperer. So part of that depends for us being attuned and paying attention and being curious about what that person might need or where we’re trying to take them to. So a classic example is if you’ve got a child who’s sleepy and bored and tired and you’re trying to get them excited, you’re going to get more energized and excite them. Equally, if you’re noticing the anxiety’s visiting or things are feeling a bit whoof, or we’re about to have a bit of a thorny conversation, you might be bringing that a little bit down. But I think some of that is around the paying attention and the tuning in and also being aware of how am I showing up or what am I bringing into the space?

Obviously that’s different if you’re in a parenting caring role, you might be able to notice some of those cues and signals as to where a child’s at. Whereas sometimes in a therapy setting, we’re learning that or naming it or checking in and trying to think about what might this particular conversation or situation need at this particular time. And sometimes it’s obvious because we can see a child is feeling overwhelmed and other times we might need to gently experiment or explore something and see where it lands or if it’s helpful.

DAWN (10:27):

I love that it’s that state of flux, or I’m doing this with my hands, that state of flux, isn’t it? That you’re finding a balance maybe.

KAREN (10:36):

Yeah. And there’s that harmony, isn’t it? And what we’re trying to do when you’re really doing the anchoring work is you’re trying to widen your own or the child’s window of tolerance and capacity for joy so that there is more of a space because we will go through ebbs and flows and flux in different places as we need to. To go to bed at night, we need to be able to down-regulate to sleep. We want people to feel excited when something’s happening or to have a spark or passion. So it’s not trying to get people as, and I’m doing in speech marks because I wouldn’t use this word, to calm down, which is how I think people often think. It’s how are we helping to adapt and navigate and shift our arousal and energy to meet what we need at that time?

DAWN (11:28):

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DAWN (13:13):

In the limbic whispering, you emphasize creativity in regulation, and you touched on it earlier when we talked about TikTok, one size fits all, but why is it so important to move beyond that one size fits all approach?

KAREN (13:34):

Oh, love that question. Firstly, if you just take, as an example, let’s just take a really basic example, lavender. So many people are like, “What do you do when you want to bring a scent that is soothing or regulating? Lavender?” But as we know, I love lavender. I’ve got lavender all around my house, but some people don’t like lavender. Some people are allergic to lavender, some people have negative associations to lavender. Some people can’t smell or have long-term COVID or a medical condition. And so just by being like, “We’re going to go and have a blanket approach and give everyone lavender,” for one person that might be helpful and useful, and for another person, it really won’t sit or mark. And so there’s something about, yes, we can have tools and ideas, but we need to play and discover and be curious about what works for different people rather than a one size fits all.

Another classic example might be listen to the sound of the ocean. Well, for some people, they love listening to the sound of the ocean. For other people, they’re like, “It makes me need the toilet,” or, “I’m scared of the ocean,” or, “I find it irritating.” And so it’s having suggestions, but trying to … And understanding why. Why is that helpful? Why is that useful? And to support people, the child or the adult to be consciously making a selection about why I might be choosing that. So yeah, it’s important to think out of the box, and you mentioned the creative element as well. And that’s a big part of thinking creatively about how can we bring that to life. So even if it was lavender, as an example, that works for that kid or adult, how can you infuse that? Is it that they have a hand wash or a handgel?

Is it a chewy? Is it that they have an oil that goes on their fidget item? Is it in an infuser? Is it on their weighted blanket? So it’s really, there’s lots of different layers within that.

DAWN (15:48):

And for the child, what role then do the senses touch, sound, or movement? And what role does that play in helping those young people feel more anchored or settled?

KAREN (16:00):

Oh, it’s beyond huge and not just for children – cradle to grave womb to tomb really. I think what we know is that the sensory elements is sort of the primary first thing. We need to be able to access that part before we can access our thinking or our learning. And so much of that, whether our body or nervous system is having a cue for safety or a cue for threat, so much of that is our sensory system. If the body could talk, what would it say? If the nervous system could talk, what would it say? So often, and if you think even with a child, so much of it is when not what you say, but it’s around the tone of voice. It’s around the feeling, it’s around the presence. We know that one of the quickest ways to anchor some people is through our senses, is through touch or through smell where if you think about a smell, a smell can take you back to a really scary, icky place, or a smell can feel very comforting and very familiar.

So it almost can access our nervous systems much, much quicker than the words can, because we know big feelings tend to be encoded in smells and sounds and sensations are much more from a sensory perspective.

DAWN (17:24):

And if anybody listening wanted to take just one small compassionate step towards supporting anchoring and regulation, either in themselves or in other people, what might that be?

KAREN (17:39):

That’s a big question, and I think it would probably be different for different people. I suppose if we were thinking really broadly, why anchoring is really helpful and important, and how different do we show up or make someone feel or able to think ourselves when we’re anchored? So rather than seeing it, how do we infuse it? And for me, one of the biggest things is I think we’re in a society at the moment that sees things as, oh, it’s going to the gym, or it’s going to take that holiday, or it’s going to the theater, or I need to be able to do an hour of mindfulness. And that stuff is amazing. But in real world, we can’t do that when we’re at school or at work or in busy lives. So for me, it’s thinking about micro dosing, not, I don’t mean drugs and alcohol, little and often little things that we can do to cue our nervous system in the here and out.

What can I do when I make a cup of tea? What can I do when I pop to the toilet? What can I do when I press the red button on Zoom or leave a meeting? What can I do in 30 seconds to five minutes that gives me a reset or takes my brain to the gym or gives my nervous system a different experience?

DAWN (19:00):

Microdosing. What great idea. And we are going to be lucky enough to join you in a live classroom, May 28th for a whole day. You’re leading a live classroom exploring this in more depth. What could people expect to take from that experience?

KAREN (19:22):

It’s a fab day. It’s one of my favorite days. It’s a really practical, fun day. We will look at lots of different breathing strategies. We’ll look at creating wellbeing plans, but people might choose anchoring map or a different world. We will look at how do you take lots of strategies and tools and so the people leave with the treasure box of different ideas that they could apply for themselves or for the kids or teenagers or parents or carers that they support, but we’ll also be talking about the why. So not just saying, “Well, let’s do left, right movement,” but I’ll be giving actual examples of left, right movement and saying, “Why is it helpful?” So that people will leave with a real repertoire of, why is this important? What can I do? And a whole bunch of tangible activities that they can infuse in all the different work and context.

DAWN (20:20):

Fantastic. What a great day that will be. And my final question for our podcast today, if people listening to your thoughts today, what do you hope people will carry them about regulation going forward as a way of thinking about it, not just as tools?

KAREN (20:39):

Thinking about the importance of anchoring, that it’s not a sprinkle, it’s a marina, that it’s something that we intentionally have to cultivate and practice, that it’s not just a thing that’s one off, that it’s taking our brain and our nervous system to the gym over and over again, but also that if we are dysregulated, we’re not really able to regulate someone else, but also we can become dysregulated by someone’s dysregulation. So it’s really central. And to be having the thorny conversations that you often have in live story work, which might be a bit emotive or a little bit spiky or tender, we need to be focusing and working first on that safety, that stabilization, that ability to be able to hold those things before, during, and after the session. So really to have any courageous conversations, you need to be able to start from an anchored space or to support people to find their centering and their steady ground.

DAWN (21:47):

Thank you for your conversation and wise words today, Karen. And I’m really looking forward to finding out more in your live classroom. Thank you very, very much.

KAREN (21:58):

Pleasure. Thanks for having me.

DAWN (22:10):

Whether you’re a foster carer, someone who has experience with the care system, or you work with children and young people, we hope this episode has given you an insight into how we can make life story work better for young people and how you can use it in your own practice. You can find out more about Creative Life Storywork on our website, creativelifestorywork.com, and you can find us on LinkedIn and BlueSky. Please do get in touch though with any comments or questions as we’d love to hear from you. And if your podcast app allows you to, please do leave us a review as it really helps others to find our show. So until next month, bye for now.