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Podcast

Podcast Season 2: Episode 1 – Developing a new approach to life story work

Find out how a new model of life story work emerged.

Blue Cabin’s Jenny Young and Gloria Raine take us back to 2016 when the organisation was set up to help improve outcomes for care-experienced children and young people by connecting them with creative activities. Hear how the organisation developed connections and partnerships with local authorities and how the new model of Creative Life Story Work emerged.

You can catch up with all episodes so far at wearebluecabin.com/podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Produced and mixed by Will Sadler of Anya Media.

Transcript

Please note that this transcript is auto-generated and therefore will contain some errors and natural pauses in conversation.

[00:00:00] DAWN: Welcome to the creative life story work podcast. Where we explore how a creative approach to life story work can help children and young people who are in care make sense of their past and build a brighter future. A new model for life story work is being rolled out in the northeast of England. And this podcast shares the latest learning and investigates how it could help improve the lives of care experienced children and young people across the country.

[00:00:38] My name is Dawn Williams and I am an associate at Blue Cabin, one of the partners on this exciting work in the region. Today we wanted to give you a Blue Cabin backstage access all areas tour of the Blue Cabin. Small organization based in Gateshead who’s been leading on this work. And I’m absolutely delighted that my friends and colleagues, director of blue cabin, Jenny young and coordinator, Gloria rain are in the podcast studio.

[00:01:13] to tell us the Blue Cabin story. Jenny. Hello. Hello and hello, Gloria. How lovely to be here with you. Um, I wonder, Jenny, to start us off, if you could paint a bit of a picture about the inception of Blue Cabin. How did it all start? When did it all start? Why did it all start?

[00:01:36] JENNY: Yes, of course. Of course. It’s so lovely to be on.

[00:01:40] having listened to so many of them. So yeah, Blue Cabin, where did we begin? I suppose Blue Cabin is, um, was officially a company in 2016. And we were set up at that time as a community interest company, but I suppose Blue Cabin as a, as an idea and as a, as an organization, probably. I began a number of years before that and came through experience of working directly with care experienced children and young people that I had over a number of years in County Durham Children’s Services and local authority.

[00:02:17] And that was between 2004 and 2007 I think and I worked with care experienced individuals as what was the virtual school at that time. And, um. noticed, I suppose, how beneficial creative activities were, but also noticed that that was always relying on additional funding and also noticed that sometimes it was quite challenging to find a creative partner that understood the looked after system and understood children’s services and but always endeavoured to try and connect.

[00:02:51] care experienced individuals with creative activity and, and through that work formed lots of partners with creative organizations and thought it would be so fantastic to take this learning into a cultural organization and, and so moved into SageGate, said the fantastic organization. based in Gateshead and a lot of work was developed nationally and regionally supporting care experienced individuals to take part in music making and and I recognize through that work I suppose that being in the creative sector The local authority system can be quite impenetrable to a creative organization.

[00:03:28] It’s quite huge and there are lots of staff and it can be quite hard to find care experienced children and young people to offer them creative experiences. And so my wondering at that time was I wonder if there was a space for a small organization that had an understanding of both creative and local authority sectors that could be set up to work.

[00:03:48] provide some creative experiences for care experienced children and young people. And therefore Blue Cabin became a thing in 2016. Um, and at that time it was, it was myself and, um, some wonderful individuals including Dawn, um, our wonderful podcast host and, and we We started out by having an Arts Council England funded project in my hometown, Darlington, and that was called Head Heart Hands Darlington.

[00:04:17] And so that was the beginning, really, of the organization.

[00:04:20] DAWN: It’s funny, isn’t it, to think back to 2016 and those, and those beginnings when we think about where we are now. And, um, I suppose the link between all of us in this podcast today is, um, is Sage Gateshead, where we all met. Um, I’m gonna I’m going to ask Gloria now just to pick up on your part of the story, really, Gloria.

[00:04:44] When did you, it’ll be a few years on, but what was your entry into Blue Cabin? How did you find us and, um, what made you want to work with Blue Cabin?

[00:04:55] GLORIA: I discovered Blue Cabin, I’d heard about it because obviously I knew Jenny was working together at Sage and knew what she was doing and what she’d set up.

[00:05:03] Um, and it was in the year 2020. So I had left Sagegate said, I was looking for something else, but I always love working in the arts and in the charity sector here. That’s why I feel like I feel really passionate about working in that sector. Um, so I’d heard about Jenny’s company and I’d seen there was this opportunity came up for program coordinator.

[00:05:24] And I thought, just apply, see how it goes and then got the job. And it’s been great since then.

[00:05:30] DAWN: We call. Gloria’s role, the engine powerhouse of Blue Cabin where all things operations are held in very, very safe hands. Thank you, Gloria. Um, Jenny, you talked about the very beginning, that very first project that we did in Darlington, Head, Heart and Hands.

[00:05:47] And I’m wondering, um, You, uh, you also talked about, you’re wondering about how learning could be shared about working with cultural organisations. That very first step into a project in Darlington, in your hometown, what was the, what was that the springboard to? What else, uh, flourished after Head Heart Hands finished?

[00:06:15] JENNY: I think looking back now, It was the cementing of a very important, long standing relationship with Darlington Borough Council. It was originally forged through their head of um, virtual school, Calvin Kipling, who’s still in post, and we’ve worked with ever since. So certainly that very first project where we came together, and I think there was a sharing of values, of ways of working.

[00:06:46] And because of that, I think a trust established quite quickly between Darlington Borough Council and Darlington, and Blue Cabin that is still really, really strong now. And so I think it was the footprint of that relationship, footprint of that partnership. And I think, In somebody like Calvin Cliplin, you have someone who understands the value of creativity.

[00:07:06] He gets that it’s part of what should be on offer for every child or young person, but specifically for care experienced children and young people, and specifically how it can support those who have faced or been through trauma to recover from it. Um, so certainly the establishing of that partnership would be key.

[00:07:26] I suppose as well, the understanding and It really reinforced the importance of bringing together a team of artists who have training and support to understand what the local authority system is for care experienced individuals, a trauma informed approach to working so that they have an understanding of trauma attachment and recovery, that they can really consider with care how their creative practice and the activities they facilitate can be protective factors in.

[00:07:59] supporting children and young people who have experienced trauma, um, and I think who are open to learning and working alongside us and we brought together a number of artists at that time and working with and alongside artists has been fundamental to who we are and we now have a team amazingly of eight associate artists and other artists that work with us who Blue Cabin couldn’t be who we are without them.

[00:08:27] That group of fantastic people who have their own creative practice and also challenge us and work alongside us and we learn from them just as much as they learn from us. So certainly the key role of associate artists in, in the work that we do was, was very much established from that project as well.

[00:08:46] DAWN: Talk there of um, allies in Darlington Borough Council, allies in our associate artists. Um, Gloria, you are the person who has the most to do with, um, other people who are really important to the delivery of lots of Blue Cabin work. Would you like to say a bit about some of the different roles that you’re in daily contact with?

[00:09:10] GLORIA: So part of my work, I help set up the All About Me sessions. So that’s with the, we’re currently working with three local authorities. And I work with their teams, um, to help them to coordinate them. So I’m closely connected with their staff who are setting those up, recruiting for the sessions, that sort of thing.

[00:09:27] Also work closely with the artists. Um, and again, Jenny, what Jenny said, it’s It’s been great learning from them as well, seeing how they work and kind of trying to fit that into what I do as well, which has been really good. Um, and I work with the producers as well. So we started incorporating the virtual sessions.

[00:09:47] The sessions would always be face to face in a venue. Then we introduced them to be virtually because of COVID. Um, and that’s been a great learning curve as well, and how we can do that. And it’s really, really good. gone successful, we’ve had a lot of good, from what we’re thinking, I hope it doesn’t have a negative effect on it, we’ve found actually it has such benefits from doing it virtually and that also increases the teams, we have producers who do all the Zoom tech, getting people in, breakout rooms, that type of thing, um, and also pastoral support workers, so I work closely with them, they are people from the local authorities, so it could be a social worker, Anyone in their team, they take part in the sessions and they are there as like the safe pair of hands to Make sure everyone’s happy they can follow things up with their teams at the local authorities as well

[00:10:38] DAWN: Really important work you holding holding all those.

[00:10:42] Um, all all those moving pieces of a jigsaw It is isn’t it a constantly moving one, um, Jenny, uh, Gloria mentioned all about me there and I wondered if you wanted to, um, give a bit of the story about, um, how that came in to be and thinking about meeting Richard Rose and the importance of him as our, as, as another ally in the creation of that whole program.

[00:11:12] JENNY: Yeah, we, um, I suppose back in 2017, 2018, we had a wondering and our wondering was, Our work is very much focused on care experienced people and therefore a statutory duty of local authorities is to support um, care experienced individuals to understand their life story and what we also knew was that there was no national guidance for life story work in care.

[00:11:38] There is for adoption but currently not in care and we wondered is there a role that the artist could have or take in supporting life story work and we didn’t know. at that time and so we set about testing that out through some fantastic work and funding through South Tyneside Council and we were approached by a wonderful individual Tony Joyce from South Tyneside Council who said we really would like Blue Cabin support to think about our life story work and for the local authority and how we might be able to develop it.

[00:12:10] So that chimed really with that wondering we had about whether artists had a role in life story work and we needed to find an expert in. life story work to help, um, with that testing out that conversation. And so we, we found Professor Richard Rawes of Therapeutic Life Story Work International, and he has developed the Rawes model of Therapeutic Life Story Work over a number of decades.

[00:12:35] It is now, um, something that he delivers in this country and across the world, and it’s a really well tested, evidence based approach to, you know, life story work. So therefore, we felt as though we had all of the jigsaw pieces alongside our associate artists to pilot and test out an approach to life story work that involved artists.

[00:12:57] And from that came, through Richard’s model, um, All About Me. that is delivered in a group setting and Richard’s model in summary is a three tier approach. All About Me through Richard’s model was a one to one direct work between a child and a key adult and that’s a six week intervention and More About Me is a three month intervention.

[00:13:19] And that’s facilitated between a Therapeutic Life Story Worker, a child and their supporting adult. And Therapeutic Life Story Worker is a nine month intervention, again facilitated by a trained Therapeutic Life Story Worker with the child and their supporting adult. And what we did to think about the role of the artist is, is we worked with Richard and the artists in South Tyneside Council to reimagine All About Me as a group intervention rather than a one to one.

[00:13:47] And so the group intervention is six children and young people between the ages of five and 17 in different age categories, work with their trusted adult, either face to face or online to look at six different themes covered in six weeks, such as this is me, Um, uh, where do I live? Who do I live with?

[00:14:07] What are my favorite things, my feelings, and what do I want for my future? And, uh, the artist works as a core facilitator with the pastoral support worker to facilitate that space using their creative practice as the means to have conversations, to engage. to consider that theme for each of the children in that space, but also their creative practice helps to document the process as well.

[00:14:31] So the child or young person has something to take away from the session that documents what they’ve spoken about. Key to this is that nothing is shared with the child. that they don’t know about their life story, that’s not the intention of, of all about me, creative experiences. And also key is that the child or young person can share as much or as little as they like.

[00:14:50] It is their story. It is their session within which to navigate how much or how little they want to share with people in the group. And um, so All About Me Creative Experience is set about to provide that space for the child or young person in a group. Whilst also understanding that for some children and young people, they’d still want to have All About Me.

[00:15:14] one to one, so all about me direct work still exists as part of the creative life story work model. And as Gloria mentioned, we can also offer creative experiences online too. Um, and it follows a similar pattern, but there’s an additional session at the beginning, which is tech busting, getting people on board.

[00:15:30] And the role of the producer there is really key in supporting that space as well.

[00:15:34] DAWN: Gloria, I happen to know that you have been a producer in some of those All About Me sessions. And I wondered if you wanted to talk a bit about some of the highlights, because it’s a very privileged position to be in, being in that session, some of the highlights, but also some of the challenges of being in an online All About Me session with an artist, a pastoral support worker and up to six.

[00:16:02] young people and their trusted adults.

[00:16:05] GLORIA: I felt like it has been a privilege to be part of it. And it’s, I think at first when we were developing the sessions, we didn’t know how involved the producer role was going to be. And I remember being a producer for the first Group of sessions that we’re doing online.

[00:16:20] And it evolved where it was like, Oh, I could just get on with some emails as I’m doing the sessions. And then you were thinking, Hang on, I’m being shouted at here to do this game. And you had to join in with the game. And that wasn’t like, Oh, I have to join in. It was like really fun to be part of it. Um, and you just felt part of the group really.

[00:16:36] And I think it helps with the group. build the bond with the young people taking part in the sessions and you kind of become invested in them as well. You’re like rooting for them, um, to do well and like get most out of the sessions. Um, but highlights for me have been times where you maybe have, we had, we did have one young boy in the session and He was not very chatty at first, but in the next few weeks, he just started to like really open out of his shell and wouldn’t stop talking.

[00:17:06] Um, and it was lovely to see, but it wasn’t until afterwards in a separate meeting with the local authorities, we discovered that young boy doesn’t talk out of the home setting. So in home would talk to the foster carer, but would never in a shop go and ask for what he wanted or talk to any of the strangers.

[00:17:23] It’s not only the people he knew in the home. Okay. So being part of that, it just gives you goose bumps going, because you’re witnessing it, you’ve been privileged to be part of him developing and opening up. So that was, that does stick with you that.

[00:17:42] Will: Did you know that this show is available to listen to on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, and many other platforms. Search creative life story work. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:17:57] DAWN: What about some of the things that have been a bit more challenging?

[00:18:00] GLORIA: The things that stick out is possibly at the tech issues.

[00:18:03] Um, sometimes we can get young people as well as well as carers can come and they’re not very tech savvy and they’re not. Can’t really get online. Struggled to work out how to put a capital letter to get passwords in. So those type of situations can be quite challenging and you literally can’t get in the car and go to everyone’s house and fix those.

[00:18:23] So that’s where we found like the introduction sessions being really good to try and solve those issues before actual sessions started and we do the best we can there.

[00:18:34] DAWN: Our tech busting sessions. Yeah. Jenny, we’ve talked quite a bit about the All About Me sessions, but I wondered if you would like to say a bit about other pieces of work that Blue Cabin have been involved with over the years, because they’ve been many and varied, and I think not everybody will realise that Blue Cabin is involved in so many other bits of work.

[00:19:01] JENNY: So yeah, Blue Cabin, I suppose, as an organisation, we work in partnership. And that can be with a local authority, it could be with a charity, it could be with, um, an independent fostering agency, and the aim really is to respond to a need and also ensure that we, that care experienced individuals are being supported to access creative activity.

[00:19:23] It is a real belief that we have, and it’s based upon the, um, United Nations, um, Conventions of the Rights of the Child, that every Child and young person should have access to art and creativity and culture. And I think when children and young people are part of a system, it can often be something that isn’t as easy to access for various different reasons.

[00:19:46] And so Blue Cabin fundamentally believe that care experienced individuals have a right to access art and creativity. So that’s one of the things that we want to develop when we work in partnership is. rights and access. What we also do then is work with local authorities and partners to say what are the needs of care experienced individuals and what can we develop together.

[00:20:09] So we’re often innovating, we’re often designing brand new projects in partnership, um, and testing them out with the local authority really, and always getting feedback from children, young people, they’re supporting adults in the local authority about how it’s worked. And so Our activities can be maybe a one off creative day.

[00:20:28] So we have a project delivered in partnership with Darlington Virtual School. It’s been going for years now. It’s called Cool Things. Cool Things is very much about providing fantastic, high quality, creative activities for care experienced individuals and their supporting adults to attend across the year.

[00:20:46] That might be on a weekend. That might be during a holiday. It’s always based in a cultural venue in the town and in this instance Darlington so that there are, they are accessing and taking part in that cultural offer of that town and um, they’re always managed by one of our associates. So our associates build these projects with the local authorities, they work with our associate artists and the local authorities and our associate artists and project managers staff them and put on these fantastic creative activities.

[00:21:17] And sometimes it’s also about attending a show, for example, Tiger Who Came to Tea, with the children and young people and hooking the creative activity around that fantastic show, so that children and young people have something to take home with them that they’ve created as well. But they’ve also got a chance to see a really fantastic show on at their local theatre.

[00:21:37] So we do creative days like that. We also do themed based projects. So a really good example of that is something we did in partnership with South Tyneside called the Feel Creative Project. And that was during COVID and it was a project supporting care experienced children and young people under special guardianship orders to explore and discuss their feelings.

[00:21:58] and that was funded through Adoption Support Fund and that was very much around the need of during COVID, families are really struggling to support children to talk about their emotions and even name their emotions. So we worked with the Connected Carers team at South Tyneside Council, our associate artists, and we developed, um, a set of fantastic creative resources.

[00:22:20] Our associate artist did to enable that conversation around feelings to take place in the home. And these packs were delivered to the doorsteps of the families, and we had a WhatsApp group to support the activities and also videos and tutorials online as well. And some of the outcomes of that is it really supported carers and family members to have time together.

[00:22:44] It was a a little bit less stressful in the home than us all being in lockdown, so it reduced some stress that was present in the home at the time. Children and young people had excitement and a focused activity that was fun and engaging and that was done alongside their supporting adult, but also that they were able to, as children and young people, they were able to name some of the emotions they were facing at that time and explore them with their, um, family members.

[00:23:10] And the carers really, um, fed back to us that they were able to have those conversations and recognize more how children were feeling. So it was a really positive, a really positive project. Um, and then we also do other types of projects such as Arts Award, and that’s working with a local authority, perhaps, or a virtual school to design a number of sessions to enable care experience children and young people to gain accreditation through Arts Award.

[00:23:37] So that could be discovering a day whereby there is a number of different creative activities that care experienced individuals can try and test out. They get to talk to an artist about what they do and they get to share what they have learnt with somebody else. We’re very much about ensuring that, um, there is achievement at the heart of these activities as well.

[00:23:57] So that just gives you a flavor of some of the other things we do.

[00:24:00] DAWN: Gosh, a huge, huge amount there. Um, Gloria, you get to, um, work on all of those, all of those programs. Which one’s your favorite? You’re allowed to say, which one’s your favorite? I think, um,

[00:24:15] GLORIA: creative life story is my favorite because I feel like I’m so involved in it.

[00:24:19] There’s been kind of like up to, we’ve done seven groups from when I worked at Blue Cabin. Um, and I feel like they’ve been all my, like, I’ve nurtured them in a way and they’re getting from coordinating them from start to finish recruitment and getting them up and running.

[00:24:34] DAWN: That, that’s lovely. And, um, your description before of, um, of the relationships that are formed in those All About Me sessions online is kind of at the heart of Blue Cabin as well, isn’t it?

[00:24:46] So that’s a fantastic example of a member of the team, totally embodying that value as you take that work into the, into the all about me sessions as well. Thank you, Gloria. Um, we talked, uh, about the start of Blue Cabin, what we’ve been involved in the delivery of so far. Um, Jenny, are we allowed to say what’s in the pipeline?

[00:25:12] What are the next, what are the next things that are, uh, likely to be announced in the story of Blue Cabin?

[00:25:19] JENNY: Oh, that’s such a good question. I’m just trying to remember what I’m able to say and what might be secret. So one, one project that we, uh, really, well, there’s so many different projects that we’re really excited about, but we’ve been working in partnership with a fantastic organization called Knee Packs.

[00:25:36] meatpacks. For a number of years now, meatpacks support people in prison and their families. And, they’ve got this amazing project that’s been going for a number of years, which is supporting care leavers in prison. And, the shocking statistic, which is a third of the prison population has care experience, is some, One that we learned from NEPACS and one we felt we had a duty to respond to.

[00:25:59] So they have really supported us to develop our understanding of how best we might be able to work in partnership to, um, set up some creative. projects in a prison in County Durham called Deerbolt Prison. And so one of our associates, Jane, has been working in partnership with Dawn and EPACS on the creative aid project.

[00:26:22] Associate artist Nicola Golightly has an amazing concept based upon a first aid kit, where she actually developed some creative aid kits that were sent into the prison during lockdown. And these were these, beautiful kits of creativity and care that young men in Diabolik could, um, work on something creative when they were in their cells during lockdown, which was up to 23 hours a day.

[00:26:47] And they were able to do something creative that they could, um, uh, keep for themselves or gift to a family member or somebody that, um, they hadn’t seen. In addition to that, they were asked questions. If we could set up a creative project, what would that look, sound, and feel like? What would you want from it?

[00:27:04] What would, um, be the key ingredients? And from that consultation, we’ve applied for three years of funding and we, fingers crossed, we’re through to second stage of a national funder. They’re crossed. Yeah, and we should hear in about a month’s time as to whether we’ve been successful and that will be a three year project whereby the young men get to co commission Um, which artists they want to bring into the, um, their, their lives and what they want to do.

[00:27:32] They get to achieve perhaps arts award. They get to take part in some creative life story work. And yeah, so that is something that we’re really excited about. And if we don’t get the funding, we will endeavor to find some more to do that work because we have a commitment to those young men who took part in the consultation to do that.

[00:27:49] Um, another exciting piece of work that we’re, um, really excited about too is from the learning from the Creative Life Story Work Program. Um, we have developed a, a website. We felt that we had to have something to share with more than just the local authorities we’re working in partnership with, because the learning from that project has been so great in that there is a real need to support.

[00:28:20] practitioners in local authority, staff members, carers, to feel more confident to have conversations with children and new people around life story. And so we have a duty to be able to respond to that and we’ve gathered and collated and an array of fantastic resources together over the life of the, um, the funded projects through what works center.

[00:28:42] And we felt like we needed to put that on a website because Other local authorities, other people around the country, might find that beneficial to access those resources too. So in October of this year, we will be launching a brand new website called the Creative Life Storywork website, and that’s going to feature podcasts, toolkits, Toolkits, resources, features, and from, from supporting adults, features from practitioners, features from Life Storywork friends from around the world, and there’s going to be live classrooms and live events you can come along to learn more about different types of approaches to Life Storywork, and that’s very much, um, delivered and developed in partnership with Richard Rawls and Therapeutic Life Story Work International.

[00:29:30] Him and his model is at the heart of that website and our approach. And, um, we just felt it was our duty really to make the resources available. Quite a lot of the resources are going to be free of charge. But in order to fund the work going forward as a charity and we will be charging membership fees, but they will be kept as low as possible to ensure that as many people as possible can access the website.

[00:29:53] So if you are interested in hearing more about the website or accessing it in the future, please sign up to our newsletter and as soon as it’s launched and live. You’ll be the first to know.

[00:30:06] DAWN: I feel like we might need to have a whole podcast dedicated to the new website when it gets launched and Gloria, I know, and Gloria, I know that that’s been a huge part of your work over the, over the summer, learning lots of things to, to put that on. Um, I could sit and chat to you two all day as I do anyway, um, but it’s been an absolute pleasure.

[00:30:31] Uh, hearing the Blue Cabin story from Jenny and Gloria, I have one final question and I’ll ask Gloria first. It’s just, now that we’ve had to think about from 2016 onwards and Blue Cabin, what, what’s your wish for Blue Cabin moving forwards?

[00:30:48] GLORIA: I think my wish is just to keep developing and be involved in more local authorities across the country because I think we’ve learned so much with the virtual work we’ve done.

[00:30:59] We’re not limited anymore. I think we can go out there and just make it. And

[00:31:04] DAWN: final word to Jenny. What do you wish Blue Cabin in the next decade? Oh, that’s a really good question. Um,

[00:31:12] JENNY: I, I would love to, suppose Blue Cabin is very much based upon having lots of cups of tea with people, either face to face or virtually, and being able to explore together the possibilities and challenge ourselves to do better and to, to work harder to ensure that care experienced people.

[00:31:33] are supported in whatever way they want. And from our point of view that is around creativity and relationships. And so I want to have um, space to work alongside a fantastic members of the team who are just incredible. I’m so lucky to work with the team and the associate artists and the people that we do.

[00:31:53] And I think together we can continue having really important and fruitful conversations with people we already know, local authorities we already work with, partners we already work with, but new conversations as well because there is so much need for this work. We know that there’s a need. Now more than ever, and actually there might be places that we can work that we haven’t been made aware of yet, that we haven’t discovered yet.

[00:32:17] And therefore, wherever we can reach, we will endeavor to do that. And we will always do that in partnership. We will always do that with transparency and honesty and care and love. And, um, I just hope that, um, That we can continue doing this work, um, because it’s, it’s a pleasure and it’s, um, it’s, it’s, it’s something that is very close to all of our hearts.

[00:32:37] So, um,

[00:32:39] DAWN: hopefully those things. What a lovely note to end our podcast on. Jenny and Gloria, thank you so much for your time this afternoon. And I’ll be seeing you soon. Thanks Dawn. Thank you.

[00:32:53] Whether you’re a foster carer, Someone who has experience of the care system, or you work with children and young people, we hope this episode has given you an insight into how we could make our work better for children and young people. You can find out more about our podcast at wearebluecabin. com forward slash podcast, and we’d love to hear your thoughts.

[00:33:17] You can record and send us a direct question or message the show via the website. You can tweet us at we are blue cabin. If you’d like to listen to future episodes, remember to subscribe. Wherever it is, you usually get your podcasts. And if you’re using Apple Podcasts, please do leave us a review, as it really helps others to help find our show.

[00:33:39] Bye for now.

[00:33:43] Will: The theme music on this show is by Madder Fan. Sourced from Pixabay and used under license. You’ve been listening to an Anya Media production for Blue Cabin. Find out more at anyamedia. net forward slash podcasts.

Produced and mixed by Will Sadler of Anya Media. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts by clicking one of the following links:

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