Podcast Episode 9: Lessons learnt from a new approach to life story work

Please note that this transcript is auto-generated and therefore will contain some errors and natural pauses in conversation.

DAWN: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Creative Life Story Work podcast, where we explore how a creative approach to life story work can help children and young people who’ve been in care, make sense of their past and build a brighter future. A new model for life story work is being rolled out in the northeast of England, and this podcast shares the latest learning.

And investigates how it could help improve the lives of care, experienced children and young people across the country. My name is Dawn Williams, and I’m an associate at Blue Cabin. One of the partners on this exciting work in the region. So far in our podcast series, we’ve thought about what is a story and who gets to tell that story.

What are the ethics of storytelling and what is told and what’s not told. Um, today’s podcast is being recorded at our learning event. We’ve [00:01:00] gathered questions during the event for our guests to consider. And so now I’m going to invite, um, Pam and Joanne, and Richard from, uh, Therapeutic Life Storywork International, and our two artists, Elena and Michelle, to, um, answer some questions.

We’ve got some questions, uh, for, that are general questions, but the first one. Um, that I wanted to ask that has come through from one of our guests today, um, is, um, and I’m going to put this to Richard. And so Richard, what is unique about involving artists in the creative life story work model? Well, I think

RICHARD: the the unique concept is that not only is the work done in a creative way, which allows a child to express their story, not necessarily just through a narration or a conversation, but through an activity which actually meets their interests.

So they might build something. They may drama out their thoughts. They may, uh, create a, uh, kind of image [00:02:00] of something that they want to consider. Um, but also I think, and we just heard this from, um, the researchers is around this notion of doing things together, about having this opportunity to share their lives and as we talk about in life story work, the concept of sharing our stories helps us to share our lives.

The young people creatively, creatively rather can actually do that through a medium, which is more. Uh, familiar or more accessible for them. And so I think it’s taking away from that, uh, one to one conversation, that cognitive stuff to something much more, um, available to our young

DAWN: people. Richard, just while we’re on, we’ve got, we’ve got a very particular question that’s come through from one of our participants today, and they were wondering about, they’ve.

The talk about there being no right time for a child to start this process, but they’re curious to know if it would be appropriate when a young person has a placement move pending, is it appropriate to start this when they’re on that [00:03:00] journey? Okay,

RICHARD: so I think you were talking about creative all about me work, or all about me work, so I think we should leave it at that point for today.

Uh, then I’m, I’m very much in favour of doing these pieces of work every six months on a cyclical. context. So they build their story as they journey through their care experience. Um, but there are often times where movement has to take place, which might be, you know, as an emergency or it might be planned.

And I think the nature of the, the movement will depend on the appropriateness of the actual. All About Me session. If we are going to look at creativity over six sessions, six different titles, if you like, uh, it might well be that some of that work will help in that movement. So if I can give you one brief example, uh, if you have a young person who has told their story in a placement, uh, they have expressed what their interests are, what they struggle with, what they understand about their journey, and then they find themselves into a new placement.[00:04:00]

Hopefully with the All About Me book, they won’t have to go through all that story again. They have their passport. And so when it comes to that new carer or that new environment, they know what the child enjoys. They know what the child understands. They understand a little bit about that child’s preferences and that child’s challenges.

And so it should ease that placement move rather than complicate it. So I think you just have to look at the reason for the move, um, but if it’s progressive, if it’s, uh, supportive, then all of that means could be very, very

DAWN: useful. Our local authority colleagues, um, and I don’t know who would like to answer this, Pam or Joanne, um, there’s two questions that I’m merging here, and it’s about, The funding, how can we pay for, for this, um, for this program?

And as a sub question to that, um, one of our participants has asked, are the regional adoption agencies able to access creative life story work through the adoption support fund? [00:05:00] Who would like to tackle that, Pam or Joanne? I

JOANNE: can attempt to answer. I don’t know. Thank you, Joanne. In terms of the Adoption Support Fund, I don’t believe this is linked particularly in terms of this programme to therapy that’s available through the Adoption Support Fund.

I may have that wrong, but I don’t believe it is linked at this moment. In terms of funding, um, I, I, I think I’ve already mentioned in the breakout room and at the beginning, um, in the podcast, the funding that we had, um, from what works was absolutely invaluable to this. I’m not sure we, we would’ve been able to get off the ground as well as we have if we didn’t have that funding.

However, saying that, um, blue Cabin have. been very, very proactive in sourcing additional funding streams from various different areas. And, um, we have actually, [00:06:00] um, agreed, it’s probably still news to Jenny at the moment, but we’ve just agreed internally that we have been able to match the funding available.

Um, yes, love heart. Thank you, Jenny. Um, to enable us to continue working with Blue Cabin and Richard for the next 12 months. Um, and again, that’s. Thanks to um, thank you Chloe and again that’s, that’s thanks to Jenny and the team being able to identify 50 percent of the funding that’s required which is, which is a big amount.

Um, so we’re really pleased that we’ve been able to, to identify the other 50 percent which in the big scheme of things and if you think about how much a residential placement for one child costs per week, it’s not a huge amount of money at all but in the big scheme of things when we’re Pressured with budgets.

It’s a chunk of money, but it’s definitely worth being creative about in terms of trying to identify sources of funding, which, which we’ve managed to do. So, yeah, I dunno if that

DAWN: answers the [00:07:00] questions or not. Absolutely. Answers my question. Um, is Pam here? I wondered if you wanted to add anything different to that, Pam?

UNKNOWN_1: Um, I am here. Um, I don’t think I can add anything different.

JOANNE: We are, um,

UNKNOWN_1: We are, we are looking at the next phase for us. So that includes kind of any funding that we may be able to make available so that we can continue with the creative life story work. And I think that We’re very much wanting to, um, set out our vision where we’re trying to get to how far we got along there because we have done quite a lot of work.

Um, but I would imagine any funding will just come out of children’s services budget. It’s, it, we usually just ask Anthony

LISETTE: actually.

DAWN: Ask Anthony. Very good. Name him in this session. Thank you, Pam. Thank you, Pam. [00:08:00] Um, and, uh, I have a question here that I’m going to, um, uh, ask our artists to comment on. And one of the participants has asked, what difference has this made to the children, young people and carers that you’ve had in your sessions?

So who would like to tackle that first?

MICHELLE: Lizette, would you like to go first or? Yeah,

LISETTE: I’ll go and then I’ll pass to you. I think the difference has been, I can give you one beautiful example. A young person who came incredibly scared and for the entire first session said nothing whatsoever and refused to be on camera.

And the amazing thing was, was that we let them refuse to be on camera and they weren’t used to that. They weren’t used to not being forced to do something. And by the end of that first session, through giggling, And being together and making little things. There was this, [00:09:00] they chose, and that was the moment that was magic for me.

They chose to turn the camera around. And they chose to be in that session. And it’s very hard as the artist in there who’s trying to hold it all together. When you’ve got goosebumps all over the place and you’re trying not to cry. To hold that space for someone. Um, and I think that’s where it’s been, it’s been magic.

It’s been those moments of conversation. that have happened around the art without them realizing that the art’s the squiffy squishy way to get into those beautiful and magnificent conversations and in those conversations where people have been able to say We’ve never spoken about this before or I didn’t know that about you or oh, let’s go and do that after this session We’ll pack it up for now, but we’ll do it later.

Those have been the magic moments

DAWN: And Michelle, our other associate artist on the panel today, what would you like to add to that?

MICHELLE: I think the word confidence was used earlier in terms of delivery. Um, [00:10:00] but I think that confidence emerges in the, in the children and young people. And that, that comes from lots of things.

I think one of the things is the regularity of meeting. So initially we’re new, it’s all new, so that can be scary, like Lisette’s mentioned. But actually, over the course of the six weeks, you can see the confidence build, in terms of, not just the making, but in terms of the, the chatting on, the relationships.

And, um, I mean, we’ve got lots and lots of examples. I’ve been lucky to be involved since the beginning, so just finished the eighth block, the eighth round, if you like, and they’re all different. Um, but there was one particular group where it was like, you were dugging and weaving every week online. It was just a kind of shifting sands.

And then initially there was one young person that maybe was struggling with that. But over the course of the six [00:11:00] weeks, at the end, they were actually leaning into the screen and asking questions of another young person. So you could see the barriers dropping, and that comes from the chatting on, the regularity.

It comes from the lovely art that we can do, and it comes from that support, um, from the pastoral support worker and the behind the scenes. So there’s lots going on, but I think confidence building has got to be in there for the young people, children and young people, and it’s wonderful to witness.

Absolutely.

DAWN: And just Lisette and, um, Michelle, while you’re on, a very particular question about the age range of children and young people and, um, what that was and is it best with age? Any particular age range? What’s been your experience? Because I know you can talk to that between you.

MICHELLE: I think any. I mean, initially I put myself down to work with the younger [00:12:00] ones.

And maybe that was my confidence building. Needn’t say, well, actually what I’ve designed could work with older young people. And, um, I mean, no kidding. I’ve worked with children between five and sixteen now. So, and, and, and it works because you, you, you, you duck and weave to help make it work. And I think Elena pointed out something really beautiful in her breakout, um, is that part of our job is listening and, and being prepared to develop what we do in response to what the young children or young people say.

And I know Elena’s mentioned that already, and I’m sure Lizette’s. I’ve had that, and I’ve had a kind of, whoa, you go with the flow a bit and weave, but it’s possible across the board. You just kind of tweak what you do and how you go in. But it’s, [00:13:00] older, older young people. Older young people, older children and young people love it because they like to play and give a chance to play.

Anyway, that’s it.

LISETTE: Yeah, yeah, completely agree. So we’ve divided all of us as artists. It’s in three different year groups. So the really littlies. the ones in the middle and the older ones and we as artists decide where we can pitch those sessions um and i know that at the beginning i definitely only wanted to work with older ones because i felt that that’s maybe where um the writing skills kind of lay more or maybe i was scared like michelle said but then it’s that realizing that um We plan to the nth degree, um, thanks to Michelle, I always make sure in my box there is some plasticine, because that is the go to anyone can work with and seem to love working with plasticine.

Um, but because we’ve planned so well, it means that we can tailor it beautifully to whoever’s in the [00:14:00] session, and, um, numbers have no meaning. Um, lots of the older people allegedly that we work with, um, um, maybe playing or making at a younger age. So it’s all about just adapting to the people that are there.

And that’s where, um, our skills as artists come in, that we play and make, and we find out what we need, and then we tailor it for the people in the room individually.

DAWN: Somebody else in chat, uh, agreeing with you completely and also commenting on the growing confidence of, um, adults in the room as well. One of your fellow artists, Ruth, commenting on that.

Thank you. Um, I would like to pick up on one of the questions that was put in the chat. And this is a question, um, for Chloe or Sarah. Um, I’m actually for Sarah from Ipsos and the question is did children with acute behaviour challenges and PMLDs, you might need to say what that is, take part in the All About Me sessions and were excluded from the outcomes measures [00:15:00] or weren’t they included at all and why?

Are you able to make a comment on that Sarah? The idea was that that

UNKNOWN_2: was going to be the, uh, logic for Recruitment, so the eligibility criteria for the program itself, and as evaluators we’re following that logic and looking at the children who, um, who attend, but also because of this kind of design of evaluation with the two groups, the intervention

MICHELLE: group and the control group,

UNKNOWN_2: so the people who are offered and the ones who are not offered.

this referral. Uh, we, we look at all the outcome measures for all the children that get through that first filter. So the get, get fall into that pool of being eligible, potentially eligible. So not children who were in the secure states, they’re outside of

MICHELLE: our scope and

UNKNOWN_2: view. So they might nonetheless benefit potentially from the fact that you’ve got a better trained workforce that knows more about.

all about life story work. Um, but from the point of [00:16:00] view of evaluating the all about these sessions, no, that’s

MICHELLE: how I just got those children,

DAWN: a small group. Jenny, I wondered with your blue cabin hat on whether you’d like to say anything about that

JENNY: question? Yeah, sure. Um, so if we, if we think about the creative life story work programme, uh, triangle, we’ve got all about me, more about me in therapeutic life story work.

And as Sarah and Chloe were mentioning for the purposes of the evaluation and the randomized control trial, we focused in on the all about me creative experiences. And, um, in order for us to, uh, ensure that that intervention was appropriate for the children and young people who were offered it. We worked with Richard and the local authorities to think about whether a child or young person was ready for an All About Me or actually whether it was more appropriate at that time for Tier 2 More About Me or Tier 3 Therapeutic Life Story work.

If Tier 2 and Tier 3, because of, um, where the child was in the [00:17:00] world and because of their past experience, if Tiers 2 and Tiers 3 were most appropriate for them, they weren’t taking part in the randomized control trial. And that was because, um, it was a therapeutic intervention that they needed, facilitated by a trained therapeutic life story worker.

For any child that, um, in conversation with their social worker and their carer, They were deemed to be ready for All About Me, they were put forward, and they either had the offer or they didn’t. So for those who were in, for example, the offer group, there’s been a range of needs, and, um, the artists are really skilled at working with a range of children and young people and drawing upon their strengths and, and differentiating their sessions and making sure they’re accessible.

The model as it is, isn’t necessarily ready for those with profound needs. It’s not to say that it wouldn’t be in the future. Um, uh, but right now, uh, that certainly is accessible for children for a range of needs, [00:18:00] but for those with profound and multiple learning needs, we need to do more work to make sure it’s absolutely right for them and appropriate and can be held really

DAWN: safely.

I’m going to come to my last question now, um, and I’m going to ask the same question to each of our panelists today. I’ll read you the question first. Um, I thought we could end with a smile. So the question was, what has brought a smile or made you chuckle during the development and facilitation of the creative life story work sessions?

Um, and. As our artists were talking about some of the smiles that they had in their sessions, I’m going to start with our artists first and then I’m going to ask each of the panellists. So, Michelle, what’s made you smile or chuckle during the development of your creative life story work sessions?

MICHELLE: Oh, good question.

And I’m right on the spot. I haven’t got time to think. Um, one of the things in my last session and talking about having to develop ideas, I had a a young person that had particular needs. [00:19:00] So, um, the lovely Nick, another of the artists, um, I pinched one of her ideas. And because this young lad liked to throw things, we started to make paper aeroplanes.

So that was a really joyous thing that he could do. He could achieve. And we had such a hoot. Just chugging, chugging bits of paper at the end of the session. So thank you, Nick. I nicked your idea,

DAWN: but it worked. Thank you, Michelle. Lisette, one sentence. What made you smile or chuckle during your sessions?

LISETTE: One of the activities we do is to do don’t look down portraits. Where you draw the picture of somebody else and you’re not allowed to take a pen off the page or to look down while doing it. I have got the most amazing screenshots of my face in most bizarre formations and I will treasure those

DAWN: forever.

Thank you. Richard, what’s made you smile or [00:20:00] chuckle?

RICHARD: But for me, not involved in the sessions, um, but involved with the artists, it’s really, um, when we were sitting in a restaurant talking about this project we were all going to go on, and just hearing today just the impact it’s had on the artists, that’s enough to keep me going.

It’s just nice to see you all having so much fun yourselves.

DAWN: Thank you, Richard. And Pam, what’s made you smile or chuckle? As someone who’s been involved right from the very, very beginning. Well, the day I

UNKNOWN_1: got my box of goodies was an amazing day and I was as excited as any child opening that box. And, um, I worked with Michelle.

And we did a fun thing where we all had to go off and find a glove and a hat and a scarf. And we took a lovely screenshot and that, that was a lovely picture for me. Something that I

DAWN: definitely treasure. And the final word, Joanne. What’s made you smile or chuckle as somebody else who’s been [00:21:00] involved? Pam has

JOANNE: Just stolen my thunder slightly.

We’re happy to share. So obviously I, I haven’t been involved in the actual session. So, um, but what came to mind when you said, um, when you’ve asked that question was when my box, um, was picked up and I took it home and it was a prototype. And we had a session with some of the leads across the local authorities.

And I think, I can’t remember which artist, um, we did it with, but we actually spent about an hour, hour and a half, just going through these absolutely gorgeous little boxes and experiencing what a child is going to experience. And it was just absolutely lovely. And we did giggle because we were putting on silly voices and things like that.

So it was just lovely to, to just to have some sense of what a child was going to be experiencing. So it was lovely.

DAWN: Thank you to our panelists today for [00:22:00] asking, answering the questions that we’ve gathered from participants. We realize that not all questions have been answered, but don’t worry. We, none of your questions have been lost. They’ve all been gathered up and after the event, you’ll be sent a link. To, um, something called a Padlet, where all of your questions will be answered, uh, by the person that you wanted to pose that question to.

So, I’d like to thank my panelists today. Um, if you want to find out more about other podcasts that we’ve made in this series, Please go to wearebluecabin. com forward slash podcast. Uh, we’d love to hear your thoughts. Um, you can record and send us a message to the show via the website. If you’re one of the 1, 500 people who were already taking part in our creative life story, work learning program.

Um, you can get in touch through the Thinkific learning platform. Um, if you’d like to listen to future [00:23:00] episodes of our podcasts, subscribe to wherever it is you usually get your podcasts. And if you’re using Apple podcasts, please leave us a review as it really helps others to find the show. So I’d like to say thank you to our panelists.

Thank you to our learning event participants for taking part in this live podcast. Um, and we’ll be releasing this. in the next couple of weeks for you to listen back to.