Podcast Season 3: Episode 11 – All About Us: Life story work for care-leavers

Please note that this transcript is auto-generated and therefore will contain some errors and natural pauses in conversation.

[00:00:00] DAWN: Welcome to the Creative Life Story Work podcast, where we explore how to make life story work better for all care experienced children and young people. Creative life story work is a new approach which can improve children and young people’s lives and their relationships with others at home and at school.

[00:00:22] It’s based on the Rose model of therapeutic life story work. Every month we’ll explore a different aspect of creative life story work and we’ll give insights into how you can use this approach to help care experienced children and young people make sense of their past and build a brighter future.

[00:00:41] Today we are focusing on All About Us, our pilot project where we explored creative life story work for care leavers. We’ll be chatting to Blue Cabin Associate Artist Ruth Mary Johnson, who was the lead artist on the project, and Faye Marsh from Darlington Borough Council, who we partnered with. So first up, I am absolutely delighted to welcome Blue Cabin Associate Artist Ruth Mary Johnson to our podcast studio.

[00:01:10] Ruth is a theatre maker and sharing and creating stories with others is at the heart of her practice. Ruth performs, directs and writes a whole range of stories and in her work as a facilitator she finds the power of storytelling helps us to understand and make sense of the world around us and can bring people together in a shared sense of adventure.

[00:01:37] Hello Ruth, how lovely to see you.

[00:01:40] RUTH: Hello, it’s lovely to be here on my first podcast, uh, with Blue Cabin. In fact, my first podcast, so thank you for

[00:01:48] DAWN: having me. I think it might be. You’re very, very welcome. I wonder because it is almost a year ago that we completed our pilot project And I wondered if you’d like to start at the very beginning of the story.

[00:02:07] So you’d been working delivering creative life story work for younger children and their foster carers and pastoral support workers. And I remember that one of the local, a couple of the local authorities put out a call to say, what would this look like for our care leavers? And I remember that one of the local authorities put out a call to say, what would this look like for our care leavers?

[00:02:28] and that’s all we did. We put out the call to our associate artist and said, what would it be like? What did, what, we had a meeting, didn’t we, with some of the past, with some of the PAs, the personal assistants, and I remember that you came armed with a load of questions. Lots of questions,

[00:02:47] RUTH: lots of questions, and I think like from that initial call out that sent to the associate artist teams, almost like a bat signal.

[00:02:58] I remember just being really, really interested because with the all about me sessions that I was delivering, I, I, I had, uh, delivered those for groups between 5 and 16. I sort of covered all the, all the different age ranges. So I was really interested in how, how the activities would be received, explored.

[00:03:22] with different age groups. So I was really interested when the prospect of working with care leavers came up because I was really interested in, in how, how it might be the same, how it might be different. What are the things that, what are the knowns, what are the unknowns? So yes, when we met with the team of experts who consisted of personal advisors and, uh, staff from the, the team.

[00:03:50] The different, uh, councils, I just, it was just loads of questions that we had of, of what do we know, what do we not know, but also really asking them what their dreams and aspirations were for, for the work. And they became kind of guiding principles in the planning and the thinking about how we might approach this and, and what they really wanted for, for the young adults who were going to be, uh, joining us on this pilot project.

[00:04:22] And from that, from those sort of guiding lenses and, and, um, that they were, they wanted the sessions to help build confidence, to encourage working with and sharing ideas and support with peers. They wanted the sessions to look forward towards future aspirations. They wanted the sessions to, and said they needed to be really flexible in their approach.

[00:04:48] And they very much needed to be fun. So they were kind of like our criteria to work with. Which they were. were really, really useful. I

[00:04:59] DAWN: love those guiding principles, but also, really crucial to have had that input from those, uh, experts in South Tyneside and Darlington as a starting point. And I remember that as being a really, really, exploratory and open conversation where anything was possible and we were allowed to ask as many questions as we liked.

[00:05:22] So that was really key to us understanding what some of the differences were going to be before we even met

[00:05:30] RUTH: the group. Totally. And in terms of content, I think at that point I’d sort of, I think I shared the stuff that I’d been doing in the All About Me sessions, but very open to not doing that. Uh, Which is quite interesting because in the end I went on a whole journey trying to look like loads of different framing sort of narrative arcs almost of what these sessions could be like.

[00:05:55] And I did end up coming back to where I began, but I needed to go on that journey. But that conversation then really helped conversations that I had with Nick O’Lightly, another Blue Cabin associate artist who was working with care leavers in a prison setting. Thanks So we had really, really good conversations about ways of working, and then we kind of designed our own, well we, that’s when we came up with the title, All About Us, because the, from that initial conversation, the idea of sharing with others and, and get, and the support of the group and actually really harnessing the power of the group felt really, really important and, and it was.

[00:06:45] A word that became very important throughout the whole process was interdependence. Not just for these young people who are starting their adventures in the world. Yes, independence is really important, but the interdependence of like, at the support networks that they have and and building on those and and really strengthening them.

[00:07:12] So, so Nick and I came up with the sort of the all about us framework, I get, or again, another set of guiding principles that was kind of very much taken from that initial conversation, which were the power of the group, the sessions being future focused, they needed to build confidence, um, the establishing of rules and boundaries being really, really important that the, um, which we do in all of our sessions, whatever the age group, but, but that felt really key.

[00:07:46] As well as which space it was going to be in. So with All About Me, we often were in an arts and cultural space, delivering the sessions that might be new to the young people and their trusted adults. But actually for All About Us, it felt really important to be in a familiar space, that actually we were being welcomed into a space that was owned by, by the group.

[00:08:11] And, and also we, we decided that whereas with All About Me, we would, We want to have six weeks worth of stuff, brilliant, exciting, creative stuff in packs for each young person taking part. And we wanted it to be more flexible. So, so we decided not to predetermine the activity through the, through the use of the software.

[00:08:37] resources. So that was another decision that we wanted, that we made in order to stay flexible. But the first session did involve, uh, a beautiful package of beautiful stationery that we knew we’d definitely be, be using because who doesn’t love stationery? And, uh, The power of a gift of stationery.

[00:09:00] Honestly. It’s such a joy, and I always do that. I’ve delivered it online a number of times with All About Me, but when it’s in person, I like to play a bit of pass the parcel, so I do layers. So we have like a layer, or not that, and then there’s an activity with each bit of stationary that we do. It’s so exciting.

[00:09:21] I love it. But before we even got to that point, we had an amazing session with a group of young researchers who, who had worked with you in the past, hadn’t they Dawn? That’s

[00:09:31] TRAILER: right.

[00:09:31] RUTH: Who were just brilliant. We had an online session with them and we talked about these sort of principles and the, and the sort of the, the way that we had adapted the themes of All About Me to All About Us, which included Sort of the, the all about me themes of my favorite things became who, who am I and who are we as a group that first session we had in the two pilots we did, there was in Darlington, the group, most of them knew each other very well.

[00:10:06] Whereas in South Tyneside, they didn’t know each other at all. So it’s very much about the start of the journey. Like, what’s the story of this group? Who are we became kind of an overarching theme. This is me became. our world, like who, who, who and what is around us currently. My feelings became about our health and well being.

[00:10:28] The people in my life became our social and support networks. Places I had have lived became our future. And my future became who are we as a group now? Who are we and who am I and we as a group now? So it was kind of, yeah, thinking about that future focus throughout. So we shared that. and some of the ideas for activities in this session with young researchers who were just so honest and thoughtful in their feedback that was, it was just so brilliant.

[00:11:05] And I think there was some really key things that came out of that, which I really needed to hear at the time, because I was kind of, I was going, Bit backwards and forwards of like, what is the creative activity? What is what I was trying to find something new and and the one young man said you’re never too old to play and it was wonderful and and actually he was sat there with his son on his lap and That was like the lightbulb moment It really was and it was like maybe I was sort of going or because they’re older I maybe need to Step away from and it goes against you know That’s sort of thinking I was kind of like fighting myself a lot with it And that just allowed me to really go hang on a minute.

[00:11:57] What is it that’s that’s, that I find the most fun and playful. And then from that, had a really brilliant conversation with Professor Richard Rose. He also just underlined, he was like, now that’s really useful. And yourself Dawn as well, we had lots of good conversations. Sometimes I find As a theatre maker, when I’m going into a group for the first time, who might never have experienced theatre, like, what is it?

[00:12:24] Like, and actually it’s something that you can’t always, you can’t touch, because, you know, there’s theatrical moments in everyday life. But actually, leaning into that rather than stepping away from it, I found really useful. So we, we made mini theatres with, with the group as I have done in All About Me sessions.

[00:12:46] And it does provide a really interesting and fruitful metaphor. So when everybody makes their own theatre, they decorate it how they want and show the world. Their front of house like what this is what I want the world to see about me And then they have that private space in the dressing room that which they that what I found as well with the care leavers They took so much time over their dressing room space of like getting it exactly how they wanted it and who?

[00:13:12] They might invite in there and and it does become this very quite powerful metaphor to explore Explore these spaces These themes and then through that, the, the, we created set, we created a forest of trees and a massive tree as well, like absolutely huge. And then we created shadow, a shadow play of where they are now, where they would like to be in a year’s time and, and where they’d like to be in five years time.

[00:13:44] And that was really, really fruitful and, and felt very positive. The fair, who was the fair? Personal assist, uh, advisor at, for Darlington knew the young people so well, which was absolutely fantastic and, and integral actually to, to the project working. She really got stuck in and, and they encouraged her to, and yeah, I think the group sort of grew.

[00:14:14] Uh, throughout the process. And the same with, uh, in South Tyneside where we had Susan, who is a brilliant pastoral support worker. It was a slightly different set up because she didn’t know the young people before, before the sessions, but was amazing, got stuck in, like, played games, and, and actually I think that, that there’s, Yeah, the power of the group really felt very real.

[00:14:40] DAWN: And that I think was one of the things we noticed most, well noticed, was in All About Me, it’s very much about developing that relationship between the child and the foster carer. But, so we’re almost going from an all that individual relationship to here, the collective relationship, but where the PA is, so it’s a, it’s, it’s a shift, isn’t it?

[00:15:04] From the trusted adult through to the personal advisor, nurturing, developing, and strengthening those relationships within the group where they’re, as you say, integral to it because Faye and Susan’s role was at the heart really as well,

[00:15:20] RUTH: I couldn’t do any, any of the stuff that I was Planning and all that planning and thinking time couldn’t have happened without their support and, and, you know, getting people to places that they needed to be having that up to date information about what’s going on for that, that person this week, like, cause things change so much, uh, the, you know, and the levels of responsibility that are part of, you know, A care leaver’s life is, is much different to, you know, they’re looking after the bills and the, they might have caring responsibilities themselves.

[00:15:59] And actually one, one session we, we had someone’s son join us for the session. So childcare becomes part of a, part of the thinking as well. And, and I think, It really, we talked quite a bit about taking a leap of faith because it was a pilot, because we were trying it out, we were very clear with everybody who was taking part that this was, we’re trying something, and actually their feedback on, their honest feedback about it was was really, really important.

[00:16:30] But even just to step into a room when you know it’s a creative session and you, like, but you don’t necessarily know what it’s gonna be, I think that stepping over the threshold, even if it is a familiar space of like, what is this gonna be like? I’m meeting a new person, she’s got a weird, weird friend, um, and she looks a bit wacky.

[00:16:50] She likes playing games. She’s obsessed with biscuits. What is this going to be? And I just think there was a real bravery, I think, from everybody to sort of come along and give it a go. And, yeah, I think it’s really nice, like, looking back a year ago, um, to how much, how much I learnt. Uh, those two pilots and how much it’s sort of informing the work that I’ve been doing ever since.

[00:17:21] DAWN: Yeah, so what are some of the things that you’ve taken on into other bits of work that those young people have steered for you?

[00:17:30] RUTH: I think a big thing, I’m a planner. I always plan more than I do. is needed always. And that I just don’t think that’s ever going to change. I am the bag lady. I always take so much stuff because I like to have a backup plan and a backup plan for the backup plan and things like that.

[00:17:48] But something I really, really noticed with the groups was the time taken over each activity was much longer than it was when I’ve been working with younger people. And I probably had assumed. That it would have been the opposite, but I, it was, it really wasn’t, it was like, things took a lot longer because creating something that they were, they were proud of and, you know, they took time and care over everything.

[00:18:19] So that was a real bit of learning for me, because I’m, I, I guess I, I’m often like, oh, and then we can do this, and then we can do this, and, but it made me slow down, which was really, really good, and I think. I’ve been working with older people a little bit more, I’ve been working with parents and carers on, on different projects recently and, and also care leavers in a prison setting with creative aid.

[00:18:48] And again, it’s just, it’s, it’s actually taking time. The, the sessions as well, interestingly, that with Darlington, we, we did. We kind of doubled them up so that there was rather than six one and a half hour sessions we did three, three hour sessions on a Saturday morning, which I was unsure of whether that was going to be a good time in all honesty, but it worked really well.

[00:19:14] And the feedback was that it’s a great way to start our weekend. Like I’m up and I’m doing, and I’m not, um, and weekends. can be quite a lonely time. You’ve got this two days expanse of space where if there isn’t any planned activity, then that’s quite, that’s quite a long time. So that did work really well.

[00:19:35] And what really surprised me was like, after three hours, they, the group didn’t want to leave. In fact, they didn’t want to take a break. I had to enforce breaks, which really surprised me. And then, and also with, we did the South Tyneside group, We did the six one and a half hour sessions, but the feedback halfway through was the sessions are too short.

[00:19:57] So we changed it to two hour sessions. And so, so yeah, time has been a very interesting, like the way I think about the time of a session has been interesting. changed actually, like allowing things to sit a little bit more

[00:20:13] DAWN: and settle and then listen. Ruth, it’s been really, really lovely to hit, to just remember the time and care that you and a whole myriad of others put into the actual creating of the container about, of All About Us and what that was and the changes and flexibility.

[00:20:37] That happened at every level that you were going through, listening to the PAs, listening to the young researchers, testing it out with Nick, and then right, even right to the very end. Changing the plan. Mm-Hmm. Mid session. Mm-Hmm. As well. Mm-Hmm. In response to what you were hearing back from those young people in the room with you?

[00:20:55] Mm-Hmm. How fantastic. Would you have any tips or thoughts for consideration for any others who are about to embark on working with Young Care Leavers? What would you, what would your parting tip be?

[00:21:15] RUTH: I think, just in what you’ve just said about listening, that is, it’s just so key and I think it’s, it was such a privilege to spend time with this amazing group of, of young adults who are planning such exciting things in their futures that they’re, it’s such a privilege to be able to listen and, and I think it, it, yeah, just, Yeah, keep, keep your ears open and, oh, I was trying to think of a way of putting something about open armed but open eared.

[00:21:51] I don’t know. That doesn’t quite work. I think I need to try, uh, work on

[00:21:56] DAWN: that a little bit

[00:21:57] RUTH: more.

[00:21:57] DAWN: I think, open, open arms, open ears, open heart, that’s what I saw and heard. That’s lovely. Yeah. Oh, that’s a good one. Ruth. Lovely, lovely to speak to you this morning. Thanks for having me. We’re going to have a short break, so please feel free to go away and charge your cups.

[00:22:16] Afterwards we’re going to be chatting with Faye from Darlington Borough Council.

[00:22:23] TRAILER: We want people to gain more of an understanding about what it’s like to be care experienced and to have a better understanding of what it actually means. Could creative life story work make a difference to the care experienced children and young people you work with?

[00:22:39] Maybe you’re a social worker. I think we forget at our peril that actually telling a child the story of their early life is one of the most profound uses of social work power that we could ever operate. Perhaps you’re a foster carer. You know, when they say it’s all about the child, it’s not because our experience It’s about the carer and the child and it just gives a new angle to our relationship because we’re learning about each other together.

[00:23:07] A creative life story work membership will give you or your whole team access to resources including activities you can use in direct work with children and young people, training with life story work experts and lots more. And I think a lot of our children are looking for meaning, looking for, you know, well why is it I feel this way when my.

[00:23:29] You know, my friends don’t. Why is it I get angry internally and my friends don’t? The greatest thing we see is when we are able to say to young people, this is your story. This is about who you are. And then children towards the end say, it’s not my fault that these things happened, but it is something that I can do something about.

[00:23:45] And once we have that. Then we know we can move forward, find out about our membership for individuals and for organizations on our website, creative life story work.com.

[00:23:59] DAWN: Really lovely today to bump into Faye Marsh, who was. Key to us developing creative life story work for care leavers in Darlington Fay welcome as part of the Darlington extra conference today, and so pleased that you come and have a few words with us Yeah,

[00:24:16] FAY: thank you for having me.

[00:24:18] DAWN: You’re very very welcome. I wondered if you would Describe, um, what all about us, as we decided to call it. What was all of that about and what were the first steps to us developing that piece of work with yourself and a group of young care leavers in Darlington?

[00:24:38] FAY: So at first we attended quite a lot of pilot meetings and it was about us identifying the young, the young people to attend the project.

[00:24:48] Um, And we delivered a program over three weeks. It’s on a Saturday morning, um, it didn’t Where, where was that? Because we had quite a chat, didn’t we, about where

[00:24:59] DAWN: it was going to be? Yes, yes. Where were they

[00:25:01] FAY: delivered? It was at, it was at our office at Pease House, so, at Pease House in Darlington. But it, it starts early on, even before the sessions start.

[00:25:11] It’s about reminding, um, the young people about the sessions, going and collecting them, um, so that they’re, they can attend the session. Because it’s something, it’s about Also encouraging them and getting them motivated to attend them sessions. So it started before the project started. So yeah, and it was a success.

[00:25:31] DAWN: That’s absolutely key in terms of us. We had a model of creative life story work, which was for kind of up to 18 year olds. And then we made some adaptions to it, um, with your support, your advice, your and other colleagues advice from Darlington. Um, And so I wondered, what are some of the things that you remember from those sessions?

[00:25:54] What were the highlights that you remember from those sessions?

[00:25:58] FAY: Well, I worked alongside Ruth, which was actually, she was actually amazing. And it was about making it fun. Um, In the creative sessions, um, the young people didn’t actually, um, they totally went into it straight away. Was that a

[00:26:16] DAWN: surprise?

[00:26:17] FAY: Yeah, it was a surprise, and they didn’t want the sessions to end.

[00:26:20] So each session was over three hours, but we could have done more. We could have done more with this group of young people. Um, we’ve seen them, um, At first, maybe not be open at first, but soon as the creative way and putting them thoughts and feelings about who am I, where do I want to be? And I think everybody finds that difficult talking about themselves, but when you’re doing it in a creative way and drawing it and here I am now and where do I want to be in the next five years?

[00:26:51] They, they surprised me to be quite honest and I think I found that task more difficult than what they did. Um, but it was nice to see their ambitions, their aspirations of where they want to be and even the simplest, um, little milestone. On is I want my own hope like home. Where do I wanna be? And we talk, when we talk about Maslow’s Triangle, about stability, that’s a big worry for our care leavers.

[00:27:17] What is that next step? And we’ve seen that through our journey of our sessions. Lovely.

[00:27:23] DAWN: And you talked about, um, it’s starting before the sessions, and I know a lot of care and thought was put into. How are we, what do we need to put in place in order for those young people to even get to the sessions as first and I wondered if you, as you were key to that happening, I wondered if you wanted to say something about what you actually did to make sure that those young people could get into the sessions at Pease House.

[00:27:50] FAY: So as I say, it was the gentle reminders via text and telephone calls before the day before. It was a wake up call in the morning. Are you up? Are you ready for the session? Um, and then the next step was I’d open the building for Ruth to prepare the session and I would go and collect them. A couple of them would get the bus and were able to transport themselves there but To ensure that our young people attended the session, um, I’d go and collect them.

[00:28:19] So we always had a full house.

[00:28:20] DAWN: Yeah. And did you get to join in the sessions as well? Oh, I did. I did. I did every part of it. What were some of the things that you did?

[00:28:27] FAY: We enjoyed the ice breaking games and what I really liked was, um, it was our stage. Do you know, like, and our characters. And who, who was important and to be quite honest, theirs was better than mine.

[00:28:42] DAWN: Always good to model doing it badly, I find. Yes, yes. No, it was,

[00:28:46] FAY: it was fantastic. And I, and it was, where do I want to be now? Where do I want to be in a year’s time? Where do I want to be in five years time? And actually, getting my thought process right. process. Where do I actually want to be? And actually thinking about me rather than thinking about these young people that we’re working with.

[00:29:02] And they were saying, come on Vic. But I did do the test and I found it really enjoyable. And it was good to see the group connect as well and form relationships after that. Amongst themselves. Yes, yes. And it is. I always say, like, leave and care is a community, and they feel comfortable and safe, it’s non judgmental, and we did our ground rules, and what we thought, and about being respectful, and yeah, it was a success, it was a set, yeah.

[00:29:32] DAWN: Because you were so integral to that group being set up and running, I wonder if, um, you’re able to say anything about you as a professional, some of the skills that you might have picked up along the way from working alongside an artist and those young people, and whether they’re transferable in any way to other groups that you’re working with.

[00:29:53] FAY: Definitely the creative side, um, Young people find it difficult to talk, um, if you sat across them and they, they engage better and express their views and opinions more if they’re actually active and doing something and that, that you’re, you’re not face to face looking at them. And I always say walking and talking and going on activities or in a car is the best, but actually I found this really, really useful.

[00:30:21] Um, the, as you say, the tasks that we were given throughout the sessions, um, did challenge them, but made them think about, actually, who am I and where do I want to be? Do I mean? And that, that was the, that was the focus. Yeah, lovely.

[00:30:36] DAWN: Um, and I’m wondering, because that was a pilot, was the first time that we’d done creative life story work with older people.

[00:30:43] Um, care leavers. And I wondered about what difference that’s made to life story work delivery in Darlington.

[00:30:52] FAY: It wasn’t too intrusive. And at first when I explained about this pilot, We did have our safe space and some of our young people on the sessions thought that some issues might trigger anything, but it didn’t, it didn’t go that deep.

[00:31:09] It was talking about, as you say, who am I and where do I want to be? That, that was for another sort of session, do I mean? Not for, for that. And, it’s Throughout their life story and who is important to them. And, and it was really, really good within, within, with tying that in with our promise tree as well, who is important to them on the, the different.

[00:31:33] And we did that and it wasn’t too intrusive and it didn’t take them outta their comfort zones.

[00:31:41] DAWN: Mm-Hmm. . Um, and I wonder if I asked you. If we were thinking forward ten years, what are your hopes for creative life story work? across the lifespan in Darlington.

[00:31:56] FAY: I definitely think that there needs to be more projects working with our care leavers because, as I say, from 16, we work with care leavers from 16 to 25 and I know that lots of the projects at the moment are tailored to, um, mother and babies or our younger children in care.

[00:32:15] And definitely this project did, was a success and I would like to see more of that happen.

[00:32:21] DAWN: That’s fantastic. Faye, thank you very much for giving your lunch hour to talk to us today. Always a

[00:32:26] FAY: pleasure.

[00:32:32] DAWN: Whether you’re a foster carer, someone who has experience with the care system, Or you work with children and young people. We hope this episode has given you an insight into how we can make life story work better for young people and how you can use it in your own practice. You can find out more about creative life story work on our website, creativelifestorywork.

[00:32:55] com. And you can find us on LinkedIn and Twitter or X as it’s now called at creative L S W please do get in touch with any comments or questions as we’d really love to hear from you. If your podcast app allows you to please do leave us a review as it really helps others to find our show. So until next month, bye bye for now.